Brook Cupps and Ryan Hawk - The Score That Matters

Have you ever sent a cold email that changed your life? Ryan Hawk and Brook Cupps might just convince you of the magic such an action can hold. This episode unveils their remarkable journey together, from a serendipitous encounter to co-authoring "The Score That Matters." Their partnership is a touching narrative of how leadership can profoundly affect the youth and the significance of uplifting those around us. 

Click HERE to get a copy of Brook and Ryan's book The Score That Matters
Click HERE for Ryan's website

Related TBC episodes:

• Ryan Hawk - The Pursuit of Excellence (Part 1)
• Ryan Hawk - The Pursuit of Excellence (Part 2)

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Transcript

John Broer: 0:02

Well, hello everybody out there in the Bossh ole Transformation Nation. This is your co-host, John Broer, and when I say co-host, that means that our other co-host, Sara, is here. Hey, Sara, what's going on?

Sara Best: 0:12

Hey, John. Ooh, we have a good episode today. Today we get to help two authors introduce a book that's dropping this month. It's a powerful book. Our listeners will remember the name, Ryan Hawk. Ryan is a very successful podcaster. His Learning Leader Show podcast has well over 500 episodes, maybe close to 600 now. Ryan has amazing guests. On his podcast, the Learning Leader Show, he partnered up kind of an unlikely partnership but with a guy local to him named Brook Cupps. Brook is a teacher. He's a coach at Centerville High School in the Dayton, Ohio area. Brook just is a fantastically humble, very wise leadership dude. I mean he's got some really powerful things to say and Ryan and Brook kind of came up together with this book called, "the Score. That Matters: Growing Excellence in Yourself and those you Lead. It's inspiring to know that young people in high school are learning about the same things that we as adults and leaders and managers are learning. It's great paving the way for the future, john, so I can't wait to dig in.

John Broer: 1:27

So I can't wait to dig in. All right, let's do it. The Bossh ole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode.

Sara Best: 1:49

Hey, so welcome to the podcast. Brook Cupps and Ryan Hawke so good to have you both today.

Ryan Hawk: 1:55

Thanks for having us, yeah thank you.

Sara Best: 2:02

It's kind of difficult to determine where to dig in. But we are here today to talk about your soon-to-be-released book called, "The Score That Matters: Growing Excellence in Yourself and those you Lead. Powerful book, it's a collaboration between the two of you. I think our listeners would benefit from knowing how your collaboration began, how you began to organically work together. What made that synergy?

Brook Cupps: 2:35

I teach a leadership class. Well, I didn't at the time how you began to organically work together. What made that synergy leadership development for those guys and I was looking for speakers, trying to find somebody that would talk to them, and I reached out to Ryan, not really expecting him to reply or get anything back. You know he was gracious enough to come in and speak to our group. That group then turned into a leadership class that I've been teaching for six or seven years now. But you know, Ryan was kind of- he was a bigger catalyst in that than he realizes. Just his willingness to kind of go out of his way to share what he had been doing and being a Centerville alumni had a big impact on the kids and I think it had some influence with our administration and kind of pushing our leadership stuff forward.

Sara Best: 3:20

Absolutely. That's our first takeaway. Hey, leaders, get active in your communities and share what you know. So this partnership started there. He came and spoke to your students, you kept in touch and, as a result, some pretty amazing stuff has happened, including the creation of this book. Tell us how that relationship evolved.

Ryan Hawk: 3:40

First of all, it should be said, the reason I responded quickly, one was because Brook wrote a really compelling cold email. From what I remember, it was very specific. It was very direct. He had a direct ask, which I appreciate. He asked me what he wanted me to do.

Ryan Hawk: 3:54

I had not heard of him, even though I live in the area. I had not paid much attention because my own kids are not at the time, were not near high school age. You know how when you have your kids, you're kind of focused on their worlds. So anyway, when I went in I was like I was just blown away. One, by- they had this TLG, this leadership group, with all these captains and leaders from all of the sports teams. There was probably what, Brook, 150 kids there? That first time I went in. They were really engaged, really curious. Honestly, it made me feel very confident in the future, in our future collectively, because of these kids were just well- ahead of where I was at that age. I spoke, we kept in touch because I was just impressed by Brook's kind of quiet confidence. And then I was told some stories about him from other teachers and coaches. They mentioned his son, Gabe, who I also had not heard of at the time, who then would go on to become Mr. Basketball as a junior and help them win a state title. But very, very cool, just to learn about him from others, which I think spoke volumes, because he didn't tell me any of those impressive things about him or his family members. And so from there I asked him to speak at one of my events and he initially, I think, questioned me, saying I don't think they would care to hear from me. I disagreed with him. Fortunately, he also said yes, he came in and just destroyed the room and just went big, crazy handshakes, improv, I mean, he did it all. I did a survey at the end of the event and I asked who was your favorite speaker? And his name was written down more than anybody else's, and there were other professional speakers at the event as well. So from there he joined one of my leadership circles and we've been kind of together ever since.

Ryan Hawk: 5:32

As far as this book we sat down, I guess it's now been two years or three, was it three years, I don't know. We sat down to film an online course. I brought in the film guys, the lights, the whole deal, and I also brought in a friend of mine named Dan Smith, who sat right next to us and he transcribed the entire thing that we said. For what was it? Seven, eight hours? Dan sent me the transcript after we got done and that was at that time where I texted Brook. I actually think this could be a book based on all of this. We have kind of the foundation of it. What do you think? And I think he just said like, all right, I'm down, and that was it. And so we've been working on that now for years and finally here we have the actual I don't have it with me. The actual artifact is finally done. It's pretty cool how the process just kind of organically started and now now we're to a point where others hopefully will will benefit from it.

Sara Best: 6:24

I love the way you both stayed open you know, open to the invitation, Brook. I have to ask what was that like for you? Anybody who knows about Ryan's work knows that the people that attend those meetings, those events that he hosts, they're high profile people. They're CEOs and leaders of organizations. How was that for you, and how did you determine what to share with them?

Brook Cupps: 6:46

That's why I said no initially. I just- Ryan's clientele to me, I guess I was just naive and ignorant about really the leadership development outside of education, because that's really the only facet I'd been involved with. And so once I decided to do it, then it was easy. I just kind of said, "ah, it was easy. I just I just kind of said, ah, forget it, I'm just going at it and we're just going to do the best we can. I'm going to tell them what I think is important and if they like it, great. If they don't like it, that's fine too. They didn't. They didn't know me before, they won't know me after, it'll be all good.

Sara Best: 7:18

So it's pretty years out there too. That's another takeaway, that's great.

Ryan Hawk: 7:24

It is great advice. I'm glad you said that because at the end of the day, whatever you get your opportunity, I think you just got to go for it. Like a lot of us, like the speakers, I think you can go out there and do the safe 70 percenter speech and like not take any chances and not fully go for it and you won't really be memorable probably. And you won't really be memorable probably and you won't really be helpful, but you also probably won't embarrass yourself. You'll just kind of not be noticed and I think that's a shame for anybody who does that.

Ryan Hawk: 7:52

What I would urge people to do is say you might as well just go for it, give it everything you got, go 10 out of 10. There's still a chance you'll embarrass yourself or they won't like it, but I mean at that that point, at least you were real, at least like you gave it everything, at least you tried, versus the ones who are too scared to do that. So that's also. What I really admired about him was like he just went for I noticed on my best speeches, because there have been times when I've been nervous and scared and have probably done the safe B- minus speech and now, looking back like I have a big one coming up on Tuesday next week in Dallas, a ton of people, and I'm like, I think of that moment of like I'm just going to go for it and if it bombs, well then it bombs. But I'd rather do that than just kind of play it safe and then not make any difference in those people's lives that I'm speaking to.

John Broer: 8:42

Well, and I think you, Ryan I don't know if it was authenticity, I think you said it's real, but it is it's authentic and an audience will see right through inauthenticity and they respond very favorably to that. That truthfulness, that's so cool and that also means not being afraid to maybe make those bold statements and push yourself past what the people that are just giving 70% would do. I know we're kind of just talking about how it was presented, but it sounds like that's kind of how, Brook, kind of how you're wired and, Ryan, we already know that's kind of how you're wired.

Sara Best: 9:12

I would say too, if people read your first book, Ryan, "the Pursuit of Excellence, they would have done their homework, they would be prepared, and therefore, to be real gets a lot easier when you've laid it out and you've looked at it and you've prepared and you've set the end game goal in mind. The title of the book, "The Score that Matters Growing Excellence in Yourself and those you Lead. I know there's a key element to that subline, which is growing excellence in yourself, but tell us really the main frame behind this book. It's about success on your terms, and this is something that every person leader, manager, mother, father, brother, sister, partner needs to know. Tell us about that.

Brook Cupps: 9:54

I just think that the fulfillment, happiness, enjoyment in life can be realized a lot more often when we define success on our terms rather than the terms that are pushed on us by society or other people. And I think a lot of times we don't realize that we have that power and the control to be able to make that decision. We think we just have to conform to what other people are telling us is winning or losing, is success or failure, and it's just not the case. We have the ability to set the precedent for what success is in our lives and live by that standard, rather than the standards that's pushed on us by other people. So a lot of this book is talking about okay, that sounds like a great idea, it sounds enjoyable, it sounds awesome. How do I do it? And so we try to spend a lot of time on helping people, sharing with them ideas and things that we've done or we've seen work in other people's lives that have allowed them to live on their own terms.

Sara Best: 10:50

Yeah. Was there a moment for either one of you, Ryan or Brook, where you were able to identify what your terms are like? Was there a specific experience or event, or was there a place in time where you were able to kind of break free from? Maybe it was comparison to others, maybe it was not even spoken anywhere. No one said you had to do these things. But your mental map was I got to look this way, I got to show up this way. Was there a moment where that happened for you?

Brook Cupps: 11:19

It was very clear for me, I was coaching. It was about my seventh year into coaching and our basketball team was pretty good. Like we had won a bunch of games. We ended up getting upset by a team that we had beaten earlier. I remember interacting with my daughter, who was maybe five at the time, and like I remember the moment of like what am I doing? Like I was mad at her for doing something. And then, and I just remember, like what is this? Like this is not who I want to be. This is not how I want. This is not the father. I want to show up as it's the coach. I want to show up as the husband. I want to show up as. And so I specifically remember thinking like this isn't working for me. I got to do something different. I got to figure out what that looks like for me, because my one loss record isn't it. That's not it for me.

Sara Best: 12:07

Yeah, anybody who's a sports fan or has ever been a coach or a parent of a player can appreciate the upset that comes along with that upset. You know that incredible upset. But how cool that you recognize that and began to shift your mindset. Ryan, how about you?

Ryan Hawk: 12:24

Mine came through, kind of admiring the way I felt like Brook had realized this comfort in his own skin and I felt further back when it came to this figuring it out as I'm going. Really it was just out of curiosity, like what do you do? Everyone around Centerville and now everyone kind of around the state of Ohio who follows basketball knows what tough, passionate, unified and thankful are. It's amazing that there are more people who know Brooks values than know their own values. That's a fact. Like there are people who, especially around Centerville but even beyond that, they all know tough, passionate, unified and thankful. I mean, I memorized them years ago and so, like I wanted to get to that place, I felt like I don't really fully know who I am, my purpose, what I'm about. I'm more just like heads down and work. But then at times I was starting to do like podcast interviews or the Q and A parts of speeches at the end where they're asking questions kind of about this stuff and I would kind of make things up as I went. Sometimes, you know, there were some similarities between what I was saying, but I was really just kind of off the cuff speaking and when I heard tough, passionate, unified and thankful and stealing inches and touches and positive body language, like all the behaviors, I was like God, that guy's done some work. So to me that's part of how we wrote the book too is that, brooks, we didn't really necessarily design it this way, just kind of happened takes more of the teacher role, me as the student, but then both of kind of we share from both of our perspectives.

Ryan Hawk: 13:53

So I then get to thoughtful, thankful, curious and consistent at how to live out each of those values, and that was through a lot of work. I mean, those weren't my initial four, I think initially there were 20, but just scaling them down, it's like how do I show up to live in my values each day and what does it mean? Like, what prompts, what questions can I ask myself at the end of each day to make sure that I'm showing up as a thoughtful, thankful, curious and consistent person? And when I do those things well which doesn't always happen, obviously, but when I do I feel like I am making a difference, I'm positively impacting people, I'm inspiring them to both value and pursue excellence, which is my purpose also came up through the work with Brooks.

Ryan Hawk: 14:36

So it was more out of kind of like an admiration of someone who was a little bit further along, who had figured some things out and had a comfort in their own skin things that I desire and I think that's when it is useful because it wasn't really a comparison to him, it was just more of an admiration of that way of being, of that way of carrying themselves, of that impact they were making on other people, because ultimately, our purpose almost I think all good purposes have to involve influencing and positively impacting other people, and so that's really what it was. For me it was more of a, I guess, an admiration thing and now super grateful because I feel like I'm in a much better spot than I was years ago.

Sara Best: 15:17

Yeah, is it your sense that values can lead to purpose, can help uncover or reveal purpose?

Brook Cupps: 15:24

I believe so, like when I'm helping people find those. Sometimes we start with purpose, sometimes we start with values. I don't know that there's a right or wrong way to find either. I think sometimes we have a better sense of what our values are by looking at who we admire, and then that can lead us to okay, what do these values allow me to do that? Help other people. You can definitely go at it from that angle.

Sara Best: 15:48

Well, if we use you, Ryan, as an example, you were chugging along doing your thing, and the opportunities to learn from Brook opened your eyes and helped you discover. I think this is a huge takeaway for all leaders, who may or may not realize how mechanized their world is, how they go, how they pursue, how they're always running by these mental maps. Any thoughts on that?

Ryan Hawk: 16:13

I just recorded with a leader named Scott Belsky this morning who I've had him before, but I had him again. He's written some great books and he's the senior leader at Adobe. Now it's obvious that Scott has done all of this work, this work that we're talking about you could just tell by the way he's so thoughtful and reflective but then as a very concise and clear, vivid communicator with who he is as a person. What he cares about as a husband and a dad and leading thousands of people at a company as well. And you don't get like that at least from my experience you don't get like that if you haven't done the work on yourself, and that work never ends.

Ryan Hawk: 16:51

I think that's the beauty of it, that's the fun of it is that this stuff never ends. It's hard, but it's worth it. Like most of the things that are worth it typically are preceded by hard things, and so, yeah, to me again, it's just an admiration of people who are like, hmm, I wonder how she got there, how he got there, how they this sense of really knowing themselves, their code, their purpose, what they value. And if you got all those things, I just feel like you have a much better chance of being content, of enjoying each day. Certainly, it doesn't avoid frustration, but to me it's just a much more enjoyable way to go about life as opposed to just wandering around, hoping for the best, sometimes winning some games here and there, but not really knowing yourself and then living out whatever your purpose is.

Sara Best: 17:38

We're talking about the real stuff like fulfillment, meaning, purpose, enjoyment and, yes, even in this post-pandemic crazy world we live in, that is available to people. In your book there's some very serious exercises and guides to help people get there. I do wanna ask if we go back to 2021, when the Centerville basketball team was in the state championship. You talk about how you know your measures were very different than the standard. You were not looking at achievements or accolades. You were not. Your team was not tracking the scoreboard or the wins and losses. You were tracking something very different. It's this work I think that we're talking about. Can you say more about that, Brook?

Brook Cupps: 18:17

Before every season, we sat down and we identify a goal for our team, that group, that specific group was to attack every opportunity with purpose. And so, for us, rather than saying we want to win 20 games, we want to win a district or a regional championship, or win a state championship, we feel like we want to establish a goal that becomes a daily habit that, if you follow through on it, it gives you a chance to accomplish all the things that most people identify as goals, but we want to think of it on a daily basis. What can we do? That is moving us inch by inch closer to where we want to be and allow that to be our focus, rather than allowing our focus to be win a state championship. You know, it's really an accumulation of all my years of coaching, because I've been five and 20 and I've been 29 and one.

Brook Cupps: 19:13

And so, when you just set standards and you have a way of going about things, it allows you to appreciate progress, regardless of what that record is. The goal is to maximize what we have. That's what our goal always is, and so what kind of goal will allow you to do that? And I don't think it is a results-based goal that allows you to maximize yourself, and so we try to stay focused on specific behavior-based goals that allow us to focus on the process.

Sara Best: 19:46

It sounds so simple. I truly hope leaders and managers are listening, because there's gold in there, complete gold, and what you identified, I think what we most commonly identify as the goals, those are the lagging indicators. Those are the things that show up when we do the leading things, which are the consistent, showing up every day the standards, meeting those standards, following those processes. That's huge.

Brook Cupps: 20:11

Yeah, we just talked about this in my leadership class the lead and lag measures and I use the example of kiddo coming to class and say, "I want to get an A, I want to get an A in this class, like that's their goal. A much better goal is to take notes every day in class and ask five questions. That's a much better goal. That's a process that will most likely lead to an A and if it doesn't, okay, then maybe you should have asked 10 questions. You can look back at it and reflect and see how you need to adjust that process, but it's just so much. It gives you direction, it gives you intention, it allows you to be intentional with your actions, moving forward towards your goal.

John Broer: 20:51

I think it's interesting in the context of businesses and the organizations with which we work. It's not unusual. You go to work with a senior leadership executive team, say, yeah, what's your goal for this organization? What are your goals as we're sitting here now, moving forward, and they say we want to grow view of where you want to go, but what are the things that are going to ensure that every single day? That's what you're talking about, Brook. How do we wake up every day and are committed to a specific goal? And I know in the book you talk about metaphors. You talk about giving people a vision or something on which to focus, but it's something I can do.

John Broer: 21:29

Today, winning 20 games, we're at game two. I'm not even thinking 17 games or 19 games or 18 games ahead. Something you said about being a coach. I've heard other coaches high school and collegiate say some of the best teams I coached did not have the winning records that year. I mean they were some of the best, most cohesive players. I would have taken them anywhere. It's just that the end result did not get us into the tournament, but it was one of the healthiest teams. Some of these are some of the healthiest teams I ever had. I would imagine you've experienced that as well.

Brook Cupps: 22:04

Yeah, and doesn't it make you wonder why I get curious about that why do you feel so much more fulfilled with a 15 or 12 win season where guys maximize their self? If that's supposed to be not as good, why do you have that fulfillment? Because that's really what it's about. That's why because you're maximizing the people that you had in the team that you had. That's where fulfillment comes from. That's the scoreboard we're talking about.

John Broer: 22:30

Yeah, yeah, and I know we're going to get onto a little bit more. You talked about two scoreboards and also the you know sort of the unique teacher- student perspective the two of you had. I got to get back to something really quick. You've been doing this leadership class at Centerville for six or seven years. I have never heard in any other high school anything like this. Now my sons have been outside of high school for a long time, but to me that seems to be something we should make as part of a regular curriculum in every school. And it sounds like you just didn't do sports teams. You said you did leaders from all different organizations in the school when it kicked off. Is that correct?

Brook Cupps: 23:11

Yeah, especially before it started becoming an academic class. We had leaders from band, choir, like everybody, yeah, and so now in class we have kids that aren't even that aren't in any sport. So it's been really cool to be able to touch different aspects and different people within the school community where, you know, before I just I mean, I had access to my basketball players and we have been doing this stuff for a long time. It's been. It's been cool to see the impact on some other students.

Sara Best: 23:40

I'll bet. Can I just ask too, as people may be contemplating subject matter for their own leadership development programs what is it that you're talking to the kids about?

Brook Cupps: 23:49

We have two leadership classes. Leadership 101 is foundational leadership. That's about leading yourself. So we talk about four pillars of self-awareness, purpose, courage and personal standards. So self-awareness, I think that's the one everybody misses on. Like, figure out who you are and what you believe. Most people don't know they're copying somebody else and they've never thought about what they really think.

Brook Cupps: 24:13

Purpose is figuring out how you want to impact the people around you in the world, which I had some pushback on that. Actually, people told me they didn't think that high school kids could make that decision. I said well, so that's craziness, that's crazy. They should have a purpose on what they're doing. Now, their purpose as a 17-year-old and a purpose as a 35-year-old probably won't be the same thing, but they should have a purpose. Like how are you living if you don't have any type of direction or purpose in your life? So I won out and then you got courage.

Brook Cupps: 24:42

Courage we just talk about none of that stuff matters if you ain't got the guts to do it when it may not be the popular decision, it may not be what other people are doing. Your values mean nothing if you won't do it when it matters. When you won't speak up. Silence is just as bad as being a part of it if you're not willing to say anything. And then personal standards we talk about developing habits and creating systems that allow you to consistently live that and make it a part of your life. Then our 201 class we get into a whole different part of stuff that's more about leading other people. So how do I develop trust? How do I create vulnerability and develop teams? How do I have crucial conversations with people and confront things that aren't meeting the standards? It's an awesome class, it's fun to teach and it's always something You're always going to use it. It always is. Oh yeah, wow, it's always something You're always going to use it it always is.

Sara Best: 25:31

Oh yeah, Wow. I think I know a few CEOs and leaders that probably would benefit from signing up for that, and I'm not. I mean, I'm kind of joking, but I'm not that's true that is true.

Sara Best: 25:42

What you're talking to the youth, about the young adults, is not very different than I think what we and other leadership development organizations try to help leaders understand and that's certainly the point of this podcast is how can you learn to adjust and adapt effectively? First you got to know yourself, and then the courage part. I love how you package that. You can't get to courage without rumbling with vulnerability, says our friend Brené Brown, and I 100% believe that. So when they've had their appetite whetted and their feet are in there, then you introduce this idea of vulnerability in the 200 level, which is powerful. Good stuff, Ryan. How about can you tell us about the two kinds of scorecards?

Ryan Hawk: 26:24

We got this quote from Warren Buffett, the big question about how people behave is whether they've got an inner scorecard or an outer scorecard. It helps if you can be satisfied with an inner scorecard. The outer one, essentially, is a lot of things you'd think of a comparison with others, using other people's definition of success money, fame, cars, possessions, job titles, those types of things that seem impressive or at least you feel like you need them in order to look impressive to other people versus the inner scoreboard, which, to me, is more about defining success on your terms. What are your personal core values that are actually real for you? Not somebody else's, but yours? What are the critical behaviors that align with those values, that actually make the values true, which I think are even more important that you get those defined? What is your purpose? What are you here to do? What prompts and questions can you ask yourself at the end of each day to ensure you're living in alignment with your values, not somebody else's?

Ryan Hawk: 27:24

And if you got all that, that's the inner scoreboard to me, that's to us. I think that's what it's all about. And again, when you find people who have that, you know it, you can feel it, you can just feel the way they show up each day. I am so attracted to people like that guys, girls, anything in between I don't care I'm so attracted to people who you can tell they not only have done the work, they are doing the work because it never ends. And so to me, I love trying to be in rooms and talk to people and learn from others who are inner scoreboard focused, and so why not try to write a whole book about it? As we kind of struggled along and it was very messy at times, but that's kind of how book writing goes and eventually you get there. But it's kind of funny how it works together as we're kind of battling and banging these ideas back and forth and eventually I think we got to a spot that we're happy with so that hopefully it can impact other people to want to live by that inner scoreboard.

Sara Best: 28:21

I have to say I'm a participant, Ryan. I've been a fan of yours for quite a while. I've been listening to your podcast for a long time and decided to upscale myself and joined your leader circle this year and I'm having a great experience. So there are resources available to help do that work, and the book would be one getting together with a cohort of people who are really interested in aligning their values and developing those critical behaviors as you talked about. You're also available to speak. You're a fantastic speaker. You have motivational messages, powerful messages, Brook. How about you? Can people reach out to you also to come and address their, transfer their kids to the Centerville school system.

Ryan Hawk: 29:04

Especially if you're like six- eight and they can shoot threes.

Brook Cupps: 29:10

Ryan has kind of got me onto some more speaking things, so I've done I'm doing a little bit more of that now, which I'm enjoying.

Ryan Hawk: 29:16

Brook, actually absolutely. I mean he kills, honestly, like I try to be good, but if you want someone who's really good, you would bring him in. Sara, by the way, all of Brook's leadership class stuff we have been doing it now for years, in some cases with, with clients, and it's been so cool, both him and I together. And then we've expanded and have a bigger team with Garen Stokes and Sherry Cole and Eli Liker. It's been for me, some of the most gratifying work that I get to do, because you literally are seeing change happen in people going through the one-on-one and two-on-one stuff and even more than that now that that we've got going on.

Ryan Hawk: 29:54

So it is like also being a part of a team. There's just nothing like, especially a team where you admire every other person on your team and that who you know. You've talked about the who, the head beside behind, where every person is ahead of you. That is an awesome team to be a part of and it really makes you better. And then you get to see the impact you're having, not only on the people that you're speaking with, but the ripple effect because they're all the senior leaders of the companies that we're working with. That goes both to them as leaders in their families, which is most important, but then leaders in their companies, so that goes throughout the organization.

Ryan Hawk: 30:27

So, yeah, I mean we do it to build a business and to make money, but really it's that's not the reward. For me, the reward is just that we get to do it and that we get to do it together. It's just fun, it really is, and I, to me, it's like I just want to work so hard at it so that we get to keep doing it. The reward is the work. I think that's just a really fortunate and cool place to be and I think that's why we all in our group work, work really hard at it.

Sara Best: 30:56

So the book is coming out in March. It's coming out this month, it's available for pre-order and we will make sure that we have a link to both of your profiles, to the book, all the books, but especially that one. I just want to tell our listeners. Just give you a sneak preview. Some of the chapter titles are amazing. The first one says, "let's go. I actually type G-O-O-O-O with an exclamation point, often in certain situations. Chapter one you lie too much. Chapter two life or" crossed out and death. Life and death. Chapter three fate is a terrible writer. We get into hawks and wolves down the road. Excellence is mundane, humble and hungry. Gratitude triumphs. This is your playbook. It's juicy, it's powerful. We hope that people will pick it up here quickly. There's an endorsement on the front cover by somebody we're a big fan of, which is Patrick Lencioni. He's got some good things to say about the book. John, anything from you as we head into the homestretch here.

John Broer: 31:50

I just am, a gain, I was so taken by Brook where this started and the origin of your leadership work. Again, I think our young people are so hungry for it they don't even know they're hungry for it and it just doesn't have to live in the world of sports. And then, Ryan, coupled with your expertise, your experience I was just looking forward to this when Sara said we got the two of you coming on the program. So I just appreciate both of you sharing more of your insights with the Bossh ole Transformation Nation.

Sara Best: 32:19

Yeah, I love, Brook, that your audience is young adults. There's no mistake that they are the future and if we can help pave the way, we can set the table with them. We're going to be looking at a different culture in a different world soon. That's the hope, right.

Brook Cupps: 32:34

Hope so, I love them most. I love them most days.

Sara Best: 32:40

They are also teenagers.

John Broer: 32:42

Yeah, that's true.

Sara Best: 32:43

Yeah. So anything else from you guys, anything else you want to say before we wrap up today?

Ryan Hawk: 32:48

Appreciate you guys having us. This is fun. Sara, it's been awesome having you in our circle. I appreciate you being a leader among leaders. It's been awesome. It's been a lot of fun. We got a really impressive group.

Sara Best: 32:58

So this is great, thank you.

Brook Cupps: 32:59

We do. Thank you guys for having me Nice to meet you guys. I appreciate the opportunity. Thank you.

Sara Best: 33:03

Best of luck to both of you. Maybe we'll catch up with you down the road here soon. Okay.

Ryan Hawk: 33:08

That's good, thank you.

Sara Best: 33:09

So we'll see you next time on the Bossh ole Chronicles, take care.

John Broer: 33:16

We'd like to thank our guests today on the Bossh ole Chronicles and if you have a Bossh ole Chronicles story of your own, please email us at mystory@thebossholechronicles. com. Once again, mystory@thebossholechronicles. com. We'll see you again soon.