Reference Profile Series: The Specialist Manager

Unlock the secrets behind the Specialist profile in our latest episode, featuring insights from Karen Shulman of Real Good Ventures. Specialists make up 7.48% of the population, yet their precision, respect for authority, and harmony-seeking collaboration make them a cornerstone in maintaining organizational accuracy. Join us as we dissect the distinct traits that set Specialists apart from their peers, and explore how their need for structure, clear guidelines, and fast-paced environments can be harnessed to boost team efficiency.

Click HERE for a short video about the Specialist.

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Related TBC Episodes:

• Head, Heart, and Briefcase

1. The Collaborator Manager
2. The Operator Manager
3. The Promoter Manager
4. The Altruist Manager
5. The Strategist Manager
6. The Guardian Manager

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We use The Predictive Index as our analytics platform so you know it's validated and reliable.  Your Reference Profile informs you of your needs, behaviors, and the nuances of what we call your Behavioral DNA.  It also explains your work style, your strengths, and even the common traps in which you may find yourself.  It's a great tool to share with friends, family, and co-workers.

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Visit us at www.realgoodventures.com.  We are a Talent Optimization consultancy specializing in people and business execution analytics.  Real Good Ventures was founded by Sara Best and John Broer who are both Certified Talent Optimization Consultants with over 50 years of combined consulting and organizational performance experience.  Sara is also certified in EQi 2.0.  RGV is also a Certified Partner of Line-of-Sight, a powerful organizational health and execution platform.  RGV is known for its work in leadership development, executive coaching, and what we call organizational rebuild where we bring all our tools together to diagnose an organization's present state and how to grow toward a stronger future state. 

Chapters

• 0:04 Reference Profile Series
• 14:41 Coaching Specialists for Success

Transcript

John Broer: 0:04

Welcome back to all of our friends out there in The Bossh ole Transformation Nation. This is your co-host, John Broer, and this week we continue with the Reference Profile series, and joining me to do that today is none other than Karen Shulman, another amazing member of the Real Good Ventures team. We're going to be talking about the specialist reference profile and, just simply because we've been tracking this, we've been starting. There are 17 reference profiles, by the way, and we started with the most prevalent, which is the collaborator. At least it was in the last study, the study we're using from Predictive Index. The collaborator represents a little over 11% of the human population. So we're making our way through the reference profiles and today the specialist and based on the research we're using, represents 7.48% of the human population. So we're going to invite Karen into this. She's been such an amazing co-host and she's also an absolute expert in the world of PI, data and behavioral analysis, so it's always good to have her. Let's jump in and learn a little bit more about the specialist manager and also, even if you have a specialist as a direct report, let's jump in.

John Broer: 1:23

The Bossh ole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode, karen. Welcome back to the Reference Profile series. Good to have you here again and it is wonderful to be back.

Karen Shulman: 1:53

You know I enjoy being on The Bosshole Chronicles podcast.

John Broer: 2:03

I do. I do know that and I also know that our audience loves it, loves having you on here and, as I said, we're doing this reference profile series, rolling this out, dropping them in between some of our other episodes and subject matter, expert interviews and so forth. But I will tell you we've received unsolicited feedback from people out there that have said I really love this series. I had somebody just the other day say thank you for this. This was we published one that was their reference profile and and this person said it's like you're in my head and it was just so helpful for me to be reminded of my superpowers and my potential kryptonite and things that can trip me up. So I'm just glad that it's useful for everybody out there. But today, Karen, we're going to be talking about the specialist reference profile. I know I have at least one family member that is excited about this one because that is hers. We'll talk more about that later. But, Karen, tell us a little bit more about sort of that overarching description of the specialist and what they're like.

Karen Shulman: 3:03

Yeah, the specialist is a highly precise worker who remains skeptical while respecting authority.

John Broer: 3:12

Now, interestingly enough, a couple of weeks ago, you were on here with me and we talked about the strategist, which is your reference profile. Strategist and specialist share some characteristics in common, don't they?

Karen Shulman: 3:25

They do primarily, I would say it's the big, the big, the big things that are in common are a lower extroversion drive and a higher formality drive, yeah.

John Broer: 3:36

So that whole skepticism, while respecting authority, it just sort of resonates and that makes sense, okay, good. Well, what I'm going to do is, in just a little bit, Karen's going to walk us through some of the signature work styles of a specialist. But let me share the drives, needs and behaviors sort of format. And again, as I have shared, we're looking at an average behavioral pattern for a specialist. Remember, there are millions and millions of different specialists out there. So getting your own data and you can do it in the show notes, just use the link there Getting your own data will help you understand that more specifically.

John Broer: 4:11

But generally speaking, the dominance drive, the drive to exert influence on people and events, tends to be lower for specialists, which means they tend to be more harmony-seeking and collaborative. As Karen just said, that extroversion drive is lower. And again, I just want to remind people, just because you have lower extroversion does not mean you don't like people. It means you tend to be a bit more introspective and reflective and some would even say somewhat analytical. The extroversion tends to be on the lower side, patience tends to be on the lower side, and that patience drive is we also relate it to pace, you know the drive for stability and security. Well, on the low side, interestingly enough, that specialist still feels a certain need to move things along. There's a sense of urgency. But what's really and similar to the strategist, what's really interesting is that high formality, that higher drive to conform to rules and structure. Things need to make sense.

John Broer: 5:12

So what does that look like in terms of what does a specialist need? Well, they need encouragement. They need opportunities to work with facts so conjecture, speculation, ambiguity doesn't necessarily work really well. Opportunities to work at a faster than average pace, let's get this done, let's move it forward. And they also need an understanding of rules and regulations. So I think, as we had talked about before, you know some of our reference profiles. If you just sort of you know, give them sort of carte blanche, do whatever you want, that's okay. You know, you're so good at this, I'm good with whatever you come up with. That doesn't help. That does not help with a specialist and a number of other reference profiles.

John Broer: 5:53

Now what does that look like? How does that translate into behavior? Typically, we see specialists that are accepting a policy and procedure. So somebody that adheres to and understands company and organizational policy they tend to be very matter of fact, can say things as they see them. They tend to be fast-paced and they are absolutely precise, and this is also why I'm very thankful that I'm married to a specialist, because I would have perished in some embarrassing way and I know that I'm very thankful that the specialist in my life is very, very precise. So those are sort of the overall average drives, needs and behaviors. So, Karen, for a specialist and again we're talking about specialist managers, but actually any specialist what are those signature work styles?

Karen Shulman: 6:55

Yeah, let's start off by taking a look at how specialists communicate. What are those signature work styles? They're thinking and that goes back to what you said earlier about them being reflective and introspective so they are not engaged or they're not really into what you're talking about. They're probably in their head thinking about it and they're not going to speak until they actually have processed.

John Broer: 7:34

So don't, in other words, don't misinterpret that.

Karen Shulman: 7:36

Yes, that's correct. Good, good, okay. From a delegation standpoint, it takes specialists a while to earn trust, take some time for that to happen, and so, until the trust occurs, delegation is probably pretty hard for a specialist.

Karen Shulman: 7:59

They're going to provide a lot of structure and a lot of context in terms of how things have to be done that you know a lot of this goes back to. You know, the strongest of all the factors will be the formality factor, because it's farthest from the midpoint, and the the need for precision, the need to do it right, impacts the way a specialist is going to delegate, because they're going to want it done precisely, correctly, okay, good. From a decision-making standpoint, specialists tend to be cautious. They are much more cautious with risk than some of the other profiles, and so they're going to be cautious in terms of the decisions that they do make, going to be cautious in terms of the decisions that they do make, and they are going to need a lot of details before making decisions because, again, they want to do it right.

Karen Shulman: 8:51

They want freedom from making mistakes and they don't really want to. They want to mitigate risk and, from an talk a little more about action, talk a little bit more about risk. Specialists tend to be pretty conservative, pretty careful, and they are probably more naturally responsive than they are proactive. Doesn't mean they can't be proactive, but their natural tendency will be to be responsive. Take care of whatever the customers, co-workers, vendors, et cetera need. Care of whatever the customers, coworkers, vendors, et cetera need.

John Broer: 9:25

That's interesting because the responsive nature and respecting authority is. There can be a real challenge there, and we'll talk a little bit more about strengths and common traps. There can be a challenge there, especially when a specialist will want to respect authority but maybe doesn't to use the word you just said doesn't trust the decision-making, and it's like I feel like we're getting into a real dangerous area, but I'm being told this is what needs to do. So there can be an internal struggle there.

Karen Shulman: 9:57

Yeah for sure, I totally agree with that.

John Broer: 9:59

So let's talk a little bit about the strengths and the common traps. Strengths in a specialist, they are understanding and collaborative, you know from that lower dominance. Thoughtful approach to communicating information. They also happen to be a really good listener. I don't possess that strong active listening characteristic, and specialists really do, because they are as you said, they're quiet and the wheels are turning in their head and they're processing this information and they will have strong discipline and execution. So if you give them a task, they will be on it and they'll move things forward.

John Broer: 10:37

There is nothing more frustrating, though, for people for other reference profiles that have similar characteristics, when midstream you change things and it's like oh, you know what that thing you were working on? Yeah, we're not going to do that. And that's where that struggle, that tension between respecting authority and execution and discipline, it's like why are we changing direction here? And that's also why a specialist falls into one of our three groups when it comes to change readiness, that change challenging group. Just help me understand why you keep moving the needle and I don't know why we're doing it and I'm working really hard to get my world in order.

John Broer: 11:19

Well, that can lead to also those characteristics of a specialist can lead to some traps. For example, a specialist can be exceedingly cautious when action is required and especially if there is risk or perceived risk associated with that. Communication can be pointed and sparse. In other words, it's very direct and very much to the point. If you have higher extroversion and you may be a little bit more sensitive to the sparse, the fact that there may not be a lot of communication coming through or it may be very to the point, a little too pointed, that sometimes can land differently with higher extroversion, reference profiles and definitely not comfortable in ambiguous situations. Just as you said in terms of delegating, they will give a lot of detail. They would like more detail, they would like to receive that detail. So, Karen, as it relates to working with, let's just say, we have a specialist on our team. How do we need to think about that? How do we need to work with them? What would, what do you suggest?

Karen Shulman: 12:24

Yeah, I think with with specialists, you you have to give them time to develop what it is that they're specializing in. Uh, you know, because they have lower dominance, they tend to not have a natural level of self-confidence. Like those of us that have higher dominance drives, we come with a natural level of self-confidence. The specialist doesn't really have that, but what gives them that self-confidence is when you give them time to develop their specialty and when they're more fully trained, when they have more experience, then you see that confidence level rise.

Karen Shulman: 13:04

They also, as you talked about one of the common traps they're not comfortable with things that are ambiguous. You have to really provide them with a lot of clarity, a lot of detail, because they want to do things the right way and they don't want to have any risk and they don't want to make mistakes. So the more clarity, the more details you can provide to a specialist or allow them to ask questions so that they can obtain the details that they need to do the work right. That's a great way to work with a specialist. And I think the last thing is recognize that they have pretty specialized skills and notice that recognize them for that, that helps them feel secure and I think that's important to them.

John Broer: 13:55

And would you say that that recognition do they prefer, like public recognition or a little bit more private acknowledgement or recognition?

John Broer: 14:03

your- would your

Karen Shulman: 14:05

Oh, I, I think, since I'm a, since I'm a strategist and I have a similar extroversion drive. Please don't do it publicly. You know, private is probably better for the specialist as well. Okay.

John Broer: 14:18

Yeah, yeah, absolutely. But but make sure you do that and acknowledging that expertise. Now, I know that the topic we just talked about is how to work well with them. I'm going to pivot a little bit and say how to live well with them. Uh, because, as you know, I got a very special person in my life who's a specialist. And it's so funny because, as a captain, I will and I see, could I?

John Broer: 14:42

This could translate to the workplace very easily, but as a captain, and you will appreciate this, here in Columbus there's this place, uh, it's an indoor pickleball facility and I don't know how it happened, but I it was last winter and I said to my specialist I said let's go play pickleball. I got us some lessons, that's what it was. I went and got, I went and got lessons because, if asked, would you like to do this? The answer would have been no. Because, because and I think this is pretty consistent with specialists and folks that are in that process and precision area I don't like doing new things that I'm not good at and we chuckled about that, but that's reflective of perhaps the caution that a process and precision reference profile or somebody in the and actually even on the producing, or the results and discipline. If you're going to put me in a risky situation, I need to develop some level of comfort and familiarity and a level of expertise. And I would say a lot of us would say but how do you do that without trying something new?

Karen Shulman: 15:48

Exactly, it doesn't make the person wrong, but it's a very real feeling, if that makes sense, a situation where they are going to be publicly perhaps not be able to perform and and be at the top level and have other people see them. You know where they're not prepared. It's another reason why you you might get some pushback on something like yeah yep, yep, I yeah, I know what.

John Broer: 16:16

I know what that's like and it's not a bad thing. Um, that's where balance and how you can, that's where different reference profiles can complement one another. You know, one can keep the other between the lines and not go crazy with stuff, and the other can say, hey, let's try something new. Okay, enough of John's personal life. Now let's talk about specialists in terms of motivating and recognizing and providing direction and feedback. And then, Karen, you can tell us you shared with us some delegation, but you can tell us a little bit more about coaching.

John Broer: 16:46

So, let's say, we had a specialist on our team and motivating and recognizing you just gave us some great insight that, taking them aside and acknowledging in private their contribution and especially highlighting how their work is helping the team itself, especially highlighting how their work is helping the team itself, praise them for accuracy and precision of their work and provide recognition for their specialized skill or loyalty or for the effort within their team, so that highly collaborative, harmony-seeking characteristic and that need for precision, bringing those together and recognizing that and recognizing that, and then, in terms of direction and feedback, clear instruction of what is considered right or what does good look like at the end. So there's that detail you're talking about, provide encouragement and be supportive when providing feedback and identify ambiguity early and provide enough detail so that they can move forward quickly and confidently. So, acknowledging that some of this is a little bit unknown, but we know that and we're talking about it right now. But here are some milestones that will be helpful. Now what's interesting is when we did the strategist, your reference profile a couple of weeks ago and I know this your comment was give me the work, let me know what good looks like and let me go.

John Broer: 18:04

And that's very consistent with having that higher dominance, that A over B task focus. The specialist is a little bit different. As the work is progressing, checking in and maintaining that collaborative approach and not just sort of forgetting about that specialist is really critical. So making sure that you're getting back and providing that feedback on an ongoing basis whereas not that to say, Karen, that a strategist doesn't appreciate feedback, but it's like, like you said, I got it, I'm going and it'll be what you need. Specialist is a little bit different.

Karen Shulman: 19:12

It'll be what you need. Specialist is a needs a whole lot of detail from their direct reports or from people to whom they have delegated work, because they want to make sure that things are on track, that things are being done precisely correctly, and I think a tip might be if you have a specialist manager to over-communicate with them to make sure that they have what they need.

John Broer: 19:23

Good, you know, that's interesting because, let's just say, on the opposite end of the competing values matrix, you're up there where I am, the venturer, and persuader, captain, maverick, over-communicating does not feel natural, I would say. I would say, actually for me as a captain, or even for persuaders and mavericks, venturers, I'm not so sure about because they have a very strong task focus it may feel like I feel like I'm communicating an awful lot. Are they just not getting it? I mean, they're getting it. That's, that's what they need. That's the distinction. Why knowing these reference profiles are so critical? Because you could totally misinterpret how you are addressing a person's specific needs, you know, and how they are wired.

Karen Shulman: 20:11

You can misinterpret a lot of things about any of the reference profiles. Yeah and right If you have to, if you're not accustomed to over communicating and you have to do it with a specialist and some of the other profiles, it does not mean that the person on the receiving end is not paying attention or that they are being slow or they are being ridiculous about needing. No, they actually need much more detail.

John Broer: 20:36

Okay, all right, Karen. How about if you take us home? On the specialist conversation about, we talked a little bit about delegating. Maybe just a few more clarifying points on delegation. But how do we coach specialists as effectively as possible?

Karen Shulman: 20:51

Yeah, I'll make a couple of points about delegation. You don't want to delegate work to a specialist that's going to be subjected to an awful lot of change. That will not work for them because they're going to be on a certain path. You do want to delegate structured work that requires special skill or precision. That's right up their alley. If you're going to coach a specialist, we want to give specialists some time to think and then circle back at a later time to continue the conversation Again. They need time to reflect. They need time to be introspective. They may need to be quiet when receiving coaching and feedback, but they are likely taking everything in Again. They may look like they're disengaged or not listening, but the brain is probably processing.

John Broer: 21:45

And retaining. Yes and retaining.

Karen Shulman: 21:48

Oh my gosh, that's right. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

John Broer: 21:50

You have that gift too. I don't, it's like, what did they say? Did they really say that, sorry, go ahead, that's okay, sorry go ahead.

Karen Shulman: 21:58

That's okay. You want to help specialists find some low impact safe opportunities. In other words, give them some space to take some chances and find some success. Again, because they tend to be more cautious with risk, they may not be terribly comfortable bending the rules or taking anything that they perceive as risk the rules or taking anything that they perceive as risk and this is, you know, again, low impact risks and move forward with that. I think that's another great way to coach a specialist so that you can help minimize some of their skepticism or their mistrust of doing something new and get them on board for taking action. I mean, kick in that lower C drive and make them feel comfortable. So they want to put the pedal to the metal and get things moving and get things going.

John Broer: 23:16

Yeah, that makes so much sense. It makes so much sense. And you make me think, Karen, also of psychological safety, of where, in the workplace, if we can destigmatize failure because, being risk averse, you know there is the opportunity for mistakes, and if you're asking me to do stuff with which I am not comfortable and I don't have the guidelines, but if I also know that I am free to fail, fail safely totally different- let me rephrase that, not totally different, but it provides that additional cushion, if you will, and space for those people that are D over A or cautious with risk to explore, cautious with risk to explore. However, if the risk is too high, they will avoid failure. There will be avoidance behavior because the risk is too high in case I make a mistake. So this is where behavioral wiring and the whole idea of psychological safety and emotional intelligence, they all converge and they all come together.

John Broer: 24:20

So, one of the other things, when I think about coaching personal story, the specialist in my life, early in our relationship, early, early, early in our relationship, if something was wrong, I would go to my specialist and I would say you want to talk about it, let's talk about it. What's the matter? Everything, okay, let's talk, let's talk. And just like a high B, you know, or A over B. But you know, captain, I'm going. What's the matter? You don't want to talk? Let's talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk, talk.

John Broer: 24:46

Totally consistent with who I am, and I know I do this for a living. And it's like, oh my gosh, would you just shut up? This is my thought bubble. But then I decided I was going to adapt and you know, I said to my specialist. I said, if something's wrong, when you're ready to talk about it, let me know. And a couple of days went by and I went to my specialist and I said is everything okay? I mean, you know that thing from work or whatever that was bothering you. And I was like, yep, all set, okay, thought it through and I'm good, and I don't know how that works. I just don't know how I think you have to take something and beat it to death with conversation. That's how I deal with stuff, but that's the beauty of knowing this data. Yes, that's not surprising to you, Karen, right?

Karen Shulman: 25:32

No, those of us on the opposite side of you are like, please be quiet and let me think this through. do you ever stop talking

John Broer: 25:43

Oh, that is such great advice for all of us. That self-awareness and that insight oh my golly. Well, Karen, again thank you for this. This was great. Thanks for just for participating in this, and we'll have you back for some more. How does that sound?

Karen Shulman: 25:57

Yeah, I would love it. These are fun. Enjoy doing it.

John Broer: 25:59

Well, I want to remind all of our listeners go into the show notes. For those of you that don't know your reference profile, there's a link in there. It'll take you less than 10 minutes. We'll send you your reference profile description. It's so powerful and so helpful in terms of your self-awareness, but your awareness of other people. So spread the word, tell people about the podcast and this particular series. And again, Karen, as always, great to have you here.

Karen Shulman: 26:24

Great to work with you, John, and thanks for our audience too.

John Broer: 26:32

You bet. All right, everybody, we'll see you next time on the Bossh ole Chronicles. Thanks very much for checking out this episode of the Bossh ole Chronicles. It was so good to have you here, and if you have your own boss hole story that you want to share with the Bossh ole Transformation Nation, just reach out. You can email us at mystory@thebossholechronicles. com. Again, mystory@thebossholechronicles. com, we'll see you next time.