Dr. Veronica Motley - Patience, Perseverance, and the Power of Mentorship

Dr. Veronica Motley brings 35+ years of educational leadership wisdom to this powerful conversation about what truly makes leaders successful. Her journey from task-oriented manager to inspirational leader offers profound insights for anyone looking to elevate their leadership impact.

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Chapters

• 0:00 Dr. Motley's Keys to Leadership Success
• 8:37 Patience and Timing in Career Decisions
• 15:09 The State of Education Today
• 18:21 Service and Community Partnerships
• 24:51 Boss Hole Experiences and Lessons
• 33:25 Navigating Change as a Leader
• 36:29 Looking to the Future

Transcript

Sara Best: 0:07

Greetings everybody in The Bossh ole Transformation Nation. This is Sara Best. I have the privilege today of talking with Dr. Veronica Motley. She's originally from Northwest Ohio. She is a 35 plus year career education administrator, fantastic leader and person. Today we're going to talk a little bit about keys to success. And isn't it always wonderful to hear, especially if you're an emerging leader, if you are the kind of manager or person who wishes to advance and you love the leadership notion? Hey, what are some of the things I should be thinking about and doing to make sure that I advance my skills and, you know, essentially, stay out of The Boss hole Zone?

Sara Best: 0:54

She continues to educate and inspire future educational administrators by serving as a faculty member an adjunct faculty member at University of Akron and Kent State. She received her bachelor's, master's and her doctorate from the University of Akron. Basically, what you need to know about Dr. Motley is she's the kind of person who feels that it's a privilege to serve as a leader, and I think you'll get a sense of that as she's talking. She talks about some key success factors for her patience, waiting for things to play out instead of jumping at every opportunity, diversifying your portfolio, so getting out there and having different experiences to learn, getting mentors. These are not new ideas, but they're very actionable, and she presents them in such a positive and encouraging way. The last thing you'll take away is her commitment to service, so, without further ado, let's dig in.

Speaker 2: 1:55

The Bossh ole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode.

Sara Best: 2:18

Dr. Motley, welcome to The Bossh ole Chronicles. What a treat to have you here today.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 2:22

Oh, thank you, Sara. It is such a pleasure. Thank you for the opportunity. I'm truly flattered to be able to speak with you today.

Sara Best: 2:29

Well, you're a person, Dr. Motley, I see in the community. I get to hear you speak in the community and I know yours is a voice that would benefit our many listeners out there in what we call the Bosshole Transformation Nation. These are people that are committed to leadership actions that move people and move us from here to there. So it is a great delight to ask you some great questions today and let our listeners hear your feedback. Starting with, you have a very successful, long career as administrator in education. One of the things I think our listeners would love to know is your keys to success. You know you've navigated a lot of ups and downs, challenges, just in your sector alone. But as a person, as a leader, as a woman, what are the things that have helped you find leadership success?

Dr. Veronica Motley: 3:27

Well, that's a great question and thank you for asking, because I think some people jump to the conclusion sometime that it's like I've done my time, but it's really what you've done with your time that prepared you for a leadership role, and I didn't get here by myself. I was propelled forward and stood on the shoulders of great mentors that went before me that saw something that I didn't even see in myself. That really contributed to my success is great mentors. Also, education obviously I doctorate and being willing to go as far as I can in my profession from an academic standpoint. I think that was part of what has contributed to my success.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 4:19

I would also say, quite honestly, patience and perseverance. I had to learn early on that, even though I felt at times I was ready to move on, perhaps my skill set wasn't or my tools or readiness, I was ready to leap and the opportunities weren't there when I was thinking I was ready right. So I think having patience and perseverance, waiting for the right opportunity to come along and I promise you and those that are out there listening, the opportunity will come along, you will be where you are supposed to be. Someone would have told me 25 years ago, even 10 years ago, that I would be in Sylvania, Ohio. I would have said, no, I'm going to be right here in the area in which I grew up for 50 plus years, but things have a way of working out.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 5:08

And the other thing I would say is it's really been important throughout my 30 plus years is being willing and taking initiative to diversify my professional portfolio. Even though I might not have been asked if I was in a room of colleagues and my boss said I'd have been asked if I was in a room of colleagues and my boss said, hey, I need someone to learn how to, or I need someone that will take the initiative to plan A, B or C. I had my hand up. Let me do it, let me try, let me learn. So having that thirst to learn more, to diversify my professional portfolio, I think has all those elements that really contributed to my success as a leader, and a leader in education.

Sara Best: 5:51

Oh, there's so much in there. This is great. Number one mentors, recognizing that, no matter what your industry, if you can find people and let's be honest, you may have to ask them right that it's not always provided, is it? But finding someone who has had success and is up the road a bit further from you, who's willing to guide you. I had a great mentor when I had my first managerial job and he used to literally like act like he was taking a baseball hat off his head. He said I'm taking off my manager hat and I'm putting on my coaching hat right now because I want to share something with you, and it just opened up my eyes to some things. I probably wouldn't have heard if he said it to me wearing the other hat.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 6:36

Absolutely.

Sara Best: 6:37

He was a great mentor. Education. I love this.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 6:41

So whatever skills or credentials you have, can you learn more, can you take your education to the next level, experiences. So, although I have advanced degrees, I also think the experience and exposure working in the field, amongst your peers and from folks that are in different districts or maybe the same work but a different company, if you will, yes, also, that's another type of education right.

Sara Best: 7:19

Well, two gold nuggets in there. One is it's easy to pick up what you don't want to do. So I think that's part of the reason we share Bosshole stories on the Bosshole Chronicles is because we want leaders to be reminded hey, when you do that, you know it makes people feel bad. And also just being able to take advantage of workshops, shadowing others, growing your capabilities by being exposed to these other things Love it. Talk to us about patience and perseverance, meaning when you were waiting for the right opportunity, Dr. Motley, did you have to say no to some things? Did people offer you something? And you just knew in your gut it's not the right time for me yet. Yes, Absolutely.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 8:00

That's an uncomfortable place to be in. I had a couple of headhunters that reached out to me at another moment in time and it would ironically, I would have had to relocate. It was south of Columbus, great opportunity, great districts, but I had things going on in my life. Like life keeps life-ing. I had a father who at the time time had not fight, married his second wife, so he was getting older and it had to cross the street from him. The dynamics just weren't right to pick up and move 150, 200 miles away. It just wasn't right.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 8:39

And so it's that patience and perseverance of recognizing, even though I may want it, timing is important.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 8:44

Patience and perseverance of recognizing, even though I may want it, timing is important.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 8:46

And there was no way that, with the role of being a superintendent in this district, that I could just roll up the highway for a couple hours and then roll back and be back for a baseball game or a football game or an event. Right, it wasn't the fit. And I think what I've learned through patience and perseverance, it's so much about fit, yes, and it's so much more than the work, because it's life, lifestyle and work combined that makes one a happy individual. And to move and chase the dollar and chase the title, I would not have been fulfilled my relationship with my father, who passed it's almost a year ago and a couple of weeks I would have missed out on quality time that almost a year ago, in a couple of weeks, I would have missed out on quality time that I know I didn't have a lot of quantity right. So you have to make those decisions based on patience and perseverance and knowing that just because that train pulls in the station, sometimes you just let it go by and wait for the next one.

Sara Best: 9:41

Well, and what I'm taking away from this is that the train will come back. There'll be probably even a better, bigger, cooler train. Maybe that comes because it'll be the right train, correct? I love that. I love that. And then just the idea of diversifying your professional portfolio by getting involved in other projects, and what that one said to me. Actually, all of these suggest to me or remind me that we have agency all the time If I'm unhappy or unfulfilled in my job or I'm not happy with my boss. But unfortunately, some people out there do work for a Boss hole and remember, nobody was born to be a Boss hole.

Sara Best: 10:19

And we give people grace to say they don't mean to come into work and make people unhappy, but all that to say, hey, I can do some things to expand my own horizons, to grow, to develop, to seek new opportunities. These are just some simple, very practical steps people could take.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 10:36

I agree with you and thank you for saying that, because I think it's agency advocacy for self. There are times I know as I've worked in different districts doing different jobs there comes a time typically maybe after eight years in I kind of got a little bored and it was kind of like, what can I do to recharge? And I took professional and personal responsibility to recharge my own interest and to try out a different avenue or to learn more.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 11:02

I've embraced the attitude that it's not the organization's responsibility, it's my responsibility to invest in myself.

Sara Best: 11:09

Amen, I love that and I think that's a nice piece for us to continue to focus on. I do think, because we are talking to an administrator in education, I thought it would be helpful if we just took a moment here. Dr. Motley, you could just give us, from your perspective, the state of education as you see it. You know there's a lot of crazy stuff going on in the world right now. I won't even say what, but help us hang a hat on some of the things that you see that are really positive.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 11:39

First and foremost, we are experiencing unique and, some would say, unprecedented. Some will say we've been here before Sure Times, right, mm-hmm. But I will say children are still showing up every day, educators are still showing up every day. Teaching and learning is happening, yes, continuing to thrive. As educators, we take the professional responsibility to say what else can we do to wrap our arms around our children, our students? Now more than ever, we really invest in the whole child. We are interested in not just the grades that you get, but also how are you, how are you feeling, how are you doing today, how can I help you? And that alone is something where I think we recognize, as educators, that we have to help this future generation. And I want to share one more thing that's so important.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 12:35

This weekend I'm going to the event called Dance for a Chance at Southview. We have Dance Gold in the fall at Northview, but it is when our students. They dance all day, starting at noon and they go until like 10 pm at night to raise money. Our children are very philanthropic and I have to tell you, much more than I ever was in high school and probably my early years of college and, quite frankly, all the way up to my 30s or 40s, sure that we are doing the right work to encourage them and to help them understand that the world is a bigger place than just for them, that they have an interconnectivity that is beyond their high school and they raise thousands upon thousands of dollars. So, for those who are concerned, yes, yes, these are challenging and unique times, but I promise you we will get through this. It may look different, it's going to be uncomfortable and quite different. It's going to be uncomfortable and, quite frankly, it's going to be hard, but the one thing that educators do we always put our students first, and that's our guiding light.

Sara Best: 13:45

Those are encouraging words. Thank you for those, Dr. Motley. I love what you said about the whole child. I think that's very in line with the whole person. You know, managers, supervisors and leaders need to be looking at their employees, their team members, the way you're looking at the students. Like this is not just a person reaching a goal or not. This is not just about performance. This is about how a person is doing so. Real, simple guidance, but very applicable to leaders, very applicable, and, yeah, we will applicable to leaders. Very applicable and yeah, we will get through this.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 14:20

We will.

Sara Best: 14:21

Yeah, the job of you as chief administrator and superintendent is to share that message and help people believe that it's true, isn't it?

Dr. Veronica Motley: 14:29

Yes, and I'm confident we will. Yeah, we will learn from this and I hope truly I hope that we are better on the other side. There's an old wise quote that out of chaos comes order, and I do believe that we are going to go through some chaotic times, but the good thing is we have a compass within ourselves as educators. Children are going to show up every day. The buses are going to roll. We're going to pick them up, we're going to put them in a classroom and our kindergartners are still going to learn how to read and to do math.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 15:01

Yes, athletics you know our football team, our soccer teams, our girls volleyball they're still going to have events and we're still going to have competitions. We may have to hold on to the things that we are most familiar with to help us get through, but I assure you our children are thriving and growing. In some regards, they have no idea of what's going on three, four levels beyond the classroom. Right, they don't know about the political arena right now, but they do know. Are we having pizza today and do? I have a hard class? And I love my kindergarten teacher because she makes me smart.

Sara Best: 15:39

Yeah, oh, that's so helpful, and a lot of what you just said in there could be a manager too. You know a manager and working on themselves, being aware of themselves, and then working to optimize their individuals. In much of that same mindset.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 15:51

You are so right because, as a leader of an organization we have 8,000 students and 1,000 employees, I know that there are times members of my team their stress a new law has come out through Columbus. What are we going to do? We just implemented something that made us go left. Now we're going right. What are we going to do? And as a leader and I share with those who are tuning in as a leader, it's your job to make sure that you present confidence, that you present faith, that you bring a sense of trust and inspiration that it's going to be okay, because if they see that you're nervous, they're going to be terrified. You set the tone correct and we'll need to listen sometimes where you really want to work through the agenda, but sometimes folks just need a safe space to throw up and explain where they are and how they feel. And sometimes you might have to take a step aside before you can take a step forward, because we have to be sensitive to the human being, the person, the soul, the spirit of our team and our employees.

Sara Best: 17:01

Yeah well, and I've had the privilege of watching you with not only your cabinet members but also your group of managers. I've seen you talk to them and you are that way. That is the energy you exude, it is what you make available, it's a space you hold for them. It's pretty amazing.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 17:18

I try it. Coupled with a little sense of humor, you got to have humor.

Sara Best: 17:22

Yeah, you're good at that too.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 17:24

You have to laugh because if you don't you'll just. You can lose it sometimes, but there's a lot of power in laughing together.

Sara Best: 17:32

Absolutely, and I think you know laughing is like inner jogging. If you want to run a marathon, just you know. Tell some good, clean jokes or go watch a comedy. It is good for stopping that stress response. Let me harken back to. You mentioned the dance deal at Southview High School, the kids raising money. That makes me think about service and I also know I guess in addition to your obligatory services services because of the role you hold you engage in other acts of service and other ways in the community. I know that's important to you. I also think it rounds out the fulfillment for you. Some people might be missing that and they don't know they're missing. So I thought it would be good to hear a little bit about what you've gotten involved in, why and just what service means to you in your leadership.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 18:21

Well, I definitely strive to be a servant leader. I try to give more and, especially as I'm approaching the sunset of my career, I think it even means more to me to give back and to help others and to mentor and, in some instances, even sponsor individuals who aspire to be in administration or other leadership roles. When I look at opportunities in our community, I enjoy engaging with the public. I really do, and I will tell you that there could be a lot I could show up at something 24 hours a day because of my position, right, but I really try to partner with agencies and organizations that can contribute to the growth and development of our students within our district. I try to network for the purpose of not only it's a learning opportunity for our students, but also an opportunity for our community members, our business owners, to come see what we are working with, what's in the pipeline, the employees in the pipeline, if you will, before they cross the stage, and to learn more about what education looks like today so many times we refer to. Well, when I was in school and I will tell you, we didn't have Chromebooks when I was we still had sleep chalkboards, I believe, Sara. Wow, but it's important to use those engagement opportunities for me to share the great things that are happening in our school buildings and to promote our students, in addition to maybe having an opportunity for some member of chamber to come and say I need some students that are interested in, or need some, community service hours. What a great win-win situation.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 20:01

So I do try to pick things that are partnership related and then I have some passion projects of my own. I love animals I have, you know, my doggy named Cricket and things I can do to support the humane society. That speaks to my personal heart. I'm also actively, very heavily involved in supporting women in leadership and helping them find opportunities to meet their professional goals and helping them to understand about wholeness in life and not balance. Nice that you can still move forward, maybe not as rapidly as you thought, or maybe you're staying at home and raising children, and that's okay, but that's leadership. And what other things can you do? That's just one of my passion projects, for sure, and how I discern how I will utilize my time, not only for my professional world, but sometimes my personal and professional world.

Sara Best: 21:02

And I think I would take away from what you talked about, the networking and relationship to serving or connecting, building partnerships that would support education and the students and the community. I think companies can do the same thing. Oh, absolutely it doesn't matter if we manufacture cans, or I'm not thinking of a good example widgets yeah, it doesn't matter the product, right, right.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 21:26

It's the mindset, the behaviors and the investment and the people around who are making the product and investing in the product. It's our community. I'm so fortunate and privileged to have the opportunity and investing in the product it's our community. I'm so fortunate and privileged to have the opportunity to be in Sylvania. I truly feel like I serve and it's important that we continue to look at leadership because you're giving more. It's an outpouring of oneself, it is Invest in others and really it's perpetuating leadership and the growth mindset and investing in others and being a mentor for others. It just perpetuates the cycle. It just allows us to grow and be better human beings. That helps us personally and professionally.

Sara Best: 22:09

I would submit too that the person who benefits the most it may seem daunting or a lot of work or extra work you know, hey, I'm just a manager on the shop floor, or I'm just, you know, a CFO, or I don't have time for that. No, the person who's going to benefit greatly from investment in service like that is the individual. Maybe people aren't aware, They've never really had the opportunity to give of their time, but I really think this is a missing element of we'll call it burnout treatment, maybe even burnout prevention. It's a place where we have agency to do something that's good for others, but essentially it's really good for us, for our heart, for our psyche, the whole bit.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 22:51

It fills your spirit. You know, a four-letter word that I don't like is "just Just yeah, I'm just a manager, I'm just a teacher, I'm just a mom, I'm just. You hear that all the time. Yes, it's a four-letter word, you're minimizing your own value and I sometimes find, truly, I go to a lot of evening events, it's part of my job, the obligation part, but Truly I go to a lot of evening events, it's part of my job, the obligation part. But you know, there's no greater feeling. I may be dragging my knuckles when I get there, but when I go to an orchestra concert, by time I'm oboe and being able to be part of that growth, it's that I show up with knuckles dragging, but by the time I listen to the orchestra or see a musical, my bucket is filled.

Sara Best: 23:47

That's so good. This would probably be a good time to say in our show notes. Dr. Motley, we'll have your contact information and I just want to make a serious plug. You speak at a lot of conferences. You speak at national events. I've shared the stage with you but more than anything, I just love the way you put information together. So I want to say to our listeners that may have need of an engaging, motivating speaker, especially a woman who's found success and has great, amazing tips for leaders. I think they should reach out and give you a call you available for that.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 24:25

Yes, that would be fantastic. I would like to share what I've learned from others so I can continue to invest and pour into others, because that's what makes it better at what we do. Everybody benefits.

Sara Best: 24:36

I would love that. Okay good, and you're humble, as always. I see that. I hear that. It's amazing. I would love to know. I think our listeners would love to know have you ever worked for a Boss hole or been a Boss hole yourself?

Dr. Veronica Motley: 24:51

Yes, and a little bit on the second yes, okay, yes and yes, yes, I definitely worked for a Boss hole and it was tough, I think when I realized Boss holes can dismantle you emotionally and mentally and have you question your value and worth and contribution. Yes, they're suffocating and you can wallow in it. Or you can decide to say I need to take control and I need to do something different and I need to leave and I need to take a leap in faith, bet on myself and I need to move on, and that's okay. It's scary, it is absolutely terrifying, yeah, but leaders leap, leaders try, leaders take risk. Leaders understand that failure is not failure. It's a lesson in what not to do and you use it as a lesson. Then you move on and try again, so you don't give up.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 25:48

But I definitely worked for a Boss hole. That short and sweet. I was right-hand person of support for several years. There was a younger new employee that came into the organization, probably half my age and was a male, did not have my credentials, but all of a sudden was propelled to the top of the food chain, if you will Like. My voice was just silenced. It was all of a sudden like I didn't know what I was talking about, I would have hissy fits thrown at me. At one point I had a meeting with this individual and I said I don't understand this energy, like I couldn't get around it anymore, like I don't understand where this energy is coming from. We've been fine until the last, like what's going on, and you know, I never got a clear answer. Never got a clear answer. But the one answer I did get it's time, yeah, it's time.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 26:44

So that was motivating and for me myself, being a boss, whole early on in my leadership career, I was very I'm driven. I'm just, by nature, I'm task oriented. Yes, which you know. Yes, I get caught up in the task and ignore the people, yeah, and I will accomplish a task, I will get it done. But what I realized with my professional maturity at least that's what I would like to call it that people are more important than the task. If you invest in people, inspire them again, allow them to have a level of trust within you, the task can be completed, and be completed collectively, and often comes out with a better outcome than if you isolate everybody. Individuals, with respect, go with positive intent and sometimes that's hard, but you have to assume positive intent, and early on in my career I was a just do what I say type of gal, don't ask questions. Yes, I know better, and now and again, nearing the sunset of my career, I ask more questions now than I ever have.

Sara Best: 27:52

It highlights the idea that no one intends to be a Boss hole. We come into awareness of how our natural drives may advance the ball for some people and create challenge for others. I mean for the task-focused people that worked with you or for you they probably love that you were task-focused. For the other people that needed a little more relationship, focus or empathy, you quickly realized that you know you got to dial up that extroversion and that focus outside just the work. But I do think that comes from experience, it's emotional intelligence, it's all that good stuff and willing to reflect that.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 28:30

And no, I'm not that emotional gal, I'm just, I'm not wired that way. Right Part of it is having the reflection to know I'm not and sometimes having to go, oops, I need to back up. Okay, team, let's talk. You know. Or circling back to someone saying you know, yesterday we talked and I was caught up in my own world. I'm so sorry. I could tell you were having a moment, what's going on and having that ability. But again, that's 35 years into the game and it took me a while to get there.

Sara Best: 29:05

You know I can relate to that. Holy cow. Well, in the world of Predictive Index we know that you are an individualist. That's a reference profile. There are 17 different reference profiles but your pattern is marked by higher dominance, very much a task focus. You love a challenge, you're forward-facing and moving. You move at a faster-than-average pace, but you do like to know.

Sara Best: 29:28

You have a sense of your patience factor is kind of a combination of let's consistently do this well and let's change it up. It's kind of right there in the middle and you're highly flexible. You know there's a lot of different ways that things can happen. That's an asset too. You don't need certainty. You can live with ambiguity Kind of a contrast, isn't it from? I need to know and I can live in ambiguity and I can live in ambiguity.

Sara Best: 29:57

But to me, what that suggests is you recognize that and you've said this throughout our talk today it's not about you. What you're able to accomplish is because of the dynamic you're able to create with others and the relationship, the partnership. So for any person who's a leader, especially a leader with high dominance, yes, there are times when you take decisive action, when you say this is what we're going to do, but there's always going to be a need to bring people in. So you've mastered this idea of engaging, building the relationship, getting the buy-in to just make better decisions. I think what you said is the outcome probably ended up better than maybe what I thought.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 30:34

Absolutely. And it's also knowing what you don't know and being able to say what you don't know. And I also to your point. I think one of the characteristics of being an individualist as well is I kick the status quo?

Sara Best: 30:47

Yes, you do.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 30:49

I can't do the status quo.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 30:50

So sometimes I'm seen as a catalyst or a change agent, but I really do try hard not to go in and blow it up. I try to ask questions and tell me the history and what's the rationale and how did we get here. But in the same token, it's the chameleon being able to know what, to ebb and flow, yes, being able to say I can have a little risk factor, but I know where I'm going. Being able to say I can have a little risk factor, but I know where I'm going and I do a little serpentining to get there, but I am more of a straight line person. But again, that's that reflection and maturity and bringing folks in.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 31:25

And I think specifically to my role and for anyone who changes from one company to another, you know you have to go into the new company and understand the culture, yes, and the energy and the organizational chart and the social network. And I had to take time to do that because I was new to Sylvania. I'm from Northeast Ohio, I am here during COVID. It was hard to create relationships when you're on a computer screen with 12 one-inch squares around the screen and develop those relationships. But in time it happened organically and I'm so happy that it did.

Sara Best: 32:03

Not an easy time to engage as the chief leader of a school district when everything closed down. Absolutely. You're the kind of person, Dr. Motley, who likes to upend the status quo, because things can always be better. They can always be made better and stronger.

Sara Best: 32:19

I was talking with a CEO earlier today about what we call the change challengers, champions and catalysts, and this is research that my partner, John, has done using the Predictive Index, just recognizing that people fall into different categories. You know there's champions of change. You'd be one of those. You definitely see the opportunity and the possibility all the time. And there are challengers of change, which actually is about 62.8% of the population. Sorry, John, if I got that number wrong. That's a lot of people. And then the third group, the catalysts. You know they probably can get behind a change if there's a healthy plan and an appropriate timeline. And for both groups the challengers and the catalysts the need for information and some time to get our head around it makes so much sense.

Sara Best: 33:11

I think we intuitively know this about people, how they're very different about change. But isn't it kind of nice as a leader to recognize a lot of people aren't like me? So because I embrace change doesn't mean change can't happen because these people don't support it. It just means that I need to solicit their feedback, their buy-in. Maybe the questions I need to ask should come from them, or the questions I need to answer if you will. Certainly there's a lot of great work out there about change management and helping people navigate what we call the change curve. For you, you're just talking about adaptation. You, as a leader, have identified a way where you need to demonstrate adaptation and do what does not come naturally for you for the good of the staff, the team and the enterprise, and I think that's powerful.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 34:03

I would agree and to share that or to co-sign on your thinking. You know, when I came from Northeast Ohio that's where my career has been the biggest difference has been I was 30 years in Northeast Ohio I didn't have a whole narrative behind purpose and rationale. People kind of said she knows what she's doing, she's been around, we know her work, we're good. If she says it's good, then I talk to another entity and it's like but we don't really know you, we're not comfortable with you. How do we know you're doing the right thing? You're talking about continuous improvement and status quo.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 34:40

Some folks would say you're just insatiable, you just want to keep going right. You're insatiable. I'm like no, I'm not always making it better. If we're good, we can be great. If we're great, we can be superb. People might say that's insatiable. But as a leader, and especially as a leader of an organization that works with children, we cannot afford to rest on our laurels because we're preparing them for a world that we don't even know what their employment possibilities will be. Absolutely, but that's for any leadership piece. But I like what you said about the challengers and the other person 62% were 62%.

Sara Best: 35:19

The challengers. Then we have the champions.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 35:22

Champions.

Sara Best: 35:22

Y ep and the catalysts.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 35:24

Yeah, I'm definitely the champion personality, for sure.

Sara Best: 35:28

Me and you both. Ask my poor husband, who's had to paint the walls in my house like 800 times.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 35:37

It's time for a change because I feel like it. I can totally relate. I can totally relate to that.

Sara Best: 35:41

Oh, Dr. Motley. So, as we wrap up here, what's next for you? What are you looking forward to? We're kind of inching toward the end of the school year. It's coming up quickly. What's on the horizon for you?

Dr. Veronica Motley: 35:52

Well, outside of making it through to the end of the school year, which is a big moment, I mean, graduation is around the corner. It's in June. That's like the Super Bowl for us at this level and in education. I'm really excited about that. For those who may not know, I have been granted an opportunity with an extension in my contract, but I'm wrapping up in July of '26. Okay, wow, okay, another year, yeah, another year, but a long time to still make some things happen that are great for our kids and our community. I still want to continue to work in education, so professionally and personally. I'm not done yet. I'm not done yet. I'm not done yet. I would like to revisit, maybe going back and teaching at the college level, something that's a little less demanding, and the superintendent's position with the evening activities. Again, still love what I do, to dial it back a little bit, maybe do some traveling, but I promise, for those who are listening and tuning in to podcast, I'm not counting the days, I'm making the days count and I'm not done yet.

Dr. Veronica Motley: 36:59

So that's the other thing. It's looking forward to what's next, although it hasn't been perfectly defined. We'll see what happens, but I'm excited about the future.

Sara Best: 37:08

Wow, it is exciting to hear that, and we're grateful that you would come and share your experience, strength and hope with our listeners, because that's a lot of what this was today. We wish you all the best and we'll check in with you again. We'll see you next time on the Bossh ole Chronicles.

Speaker 2: 37:28

Thanks very much for checking out this episode of the Bossh ole Chronicles. It was so good to have you here, and if you have your own Bossh ole story that you want to share with the Bossh ole Transformation Nation, just reach out. You can email us at mystory@thebossholechronicles. com. Again, mystory@thebossholechronicles. com, we'll see you next time.