The Bosshole® Chronicles
The Bosshole® Chronicles
TBC Flashback - Jenny Moebius: Heroes of Hybrid Work (August 2024)
The hybrid work revolution isn't coming—it's already here. This revealing conversation with Jenny Mobius, Senior VP at SKEDDA and host of the Heroes of Hybrid Work podcast, cuts through the noise with hard data confirming what forward-thinking leaders already know: hybrid work delivers better results for both employees and organizations.
Click HERE for Part 2 of our interview with Jenny Moebius
- Click HERE for the Hybrid Work "grader"
- Click HERE for the "Heroes of Hybrid Work" podcast
- Click HERE for the report on the Hybrid Work Debate
- Click HERE to learn about Loom
- Click HERE for Skedda's website
- Click HERE for Jenny's LinkedIn profile
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Hey everybody out there in The Bossh ole Transformation Nation, this is your host, John Broer, welcoming you to this episode of The Bossh ole Chronicles. And this is the Tuesday after Labor Day 2025. And I decided over the weekend because we are hearing so much feedback and continued input from clients and other organizations about the challenges with the remote workforce or hybrid work. And I remembered a little over a year ago we had Jenny Moebius in the studio and we have a wonderful two-part episode with her. She is the Senior Vice President and Head of Marketing at SKEDDA and also the host of the Heroes of Hybrid Work podcast, and that was really the focus of our interview with her last year.
John Broer:So I thought you know what we got to bring this back as a flashback because Jenny's insights, her tools, her methodology, the information provided in these two episodes are absolutely amazing. So I thought, hey, great time of year to reintroduce you to Jenny Mobius, let's jump in. The Boss Hole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode. Well, jenny, it is so good to have you on the Boss Hole Chronicles. Welcome.
Jenny Moebius:Pleasure to be here. John and Sara Just excited to reconnect with you and share what I've been up to since I was at PI.
John Broer:Our audience knows from the intro that we go back a few years. Our introduction to you came based on your days with PI, but you have been as it is no surprise to us doing remarkable work out there relative to the world of work and what hybrid means. And, of course, in addition to all the wonderful things that Skedda does, your creation of the Heroes of Hybrid podcast, I think, is really relevant. When I started to see the episodes and listen to the episodes that were popping up on LinkedIn, I said, oh gosh, not only is it a good excuse to reconnect with Jenny, because she's such an amazing individual, but our Boss Hole Transformation Nation listeners need to hear this. So let's just kick off with your inspiration behind the podcast Heroes of Hybrid and why it's so critical now.
Jenny Moebius:Absolutely so. Something I haven't mentioned to you before is, you know, after PI, I really wanted to continue my own passion of helping people in their own workplaces. Right, we spend more time at work than we do with our own families, and I knew at Sketa that I could continue that mission for myself how to make workplaces better. At Sketa, there was a unique position to really lean into hybrid work, obviously, because that's what we help Our software helps with, you know, helping hybrid workplaces have better technology. So that's first and foremost is I was able to continue that.
Jenny Moebius:Secondly, people are really struggling with hybrid work, and hybrid work does not have to be hard work. It simply means that managers and leaders need to see everything that they do through a new lens and that's the hybrid work lens and lead with intentionality. So what I mean by that is hybrid work. Just to take a step back, hybrid work means coming in a few days a week into the office in person. So you come in a few days a week. It could even be one day a week, it could be two days a week, but at some point you are in person with your colleagues. The rest of the day is you work remotely. So that's what we mean by hybrid work. Secondly, we find that the hybrid work debate is over. Secondly, we find that the hybrid work debate is over. So you know, the data is in and I can share a few data points that really resonated with me. But 62% of US companies and 75% of Fortune 100 now allow some degree of remote work.
Jenny Moebius:Some days in the office, some days working from home. Just six out of 158 US CEOs this report's from the conference board said they would prioritize bringing workers back full-time Just six out of the 158. And some of my favorites here also include 97 of the Fortune 100's best places to work offer hybrid work. That just shows how you know how engagement is tied to economic return, and 63% of high revenue growth companies embrace hybrid work. So all of that to say, let's just put the debate to rest. Hybrid work is here to stay. It not only increases employee engagement, but it also delivers high economic return. So setting the stage there. The second piece to this is what I said at the beginning is there are really five categories now where leaders can focus their attention to make hybrid work work. And it's funny because the more I talk to people, the more I realize it really is just going back to the basics, but seeing it through the hybrid work lens.
John Broer:Before we get into the five categories, because I and we've had episodes where we have talked about sort of the unusual nature that some few, thankfully executives or business leaders are taking when they are mandating a return to the office. I agree with you, we are in total agreement. This is no longer an anomaly, it is a reality. Covid, if it did anything, it sort of codified it and said we've been doing this, we haven't been doing it more formally, and now it's here. But I have a quick question why are some leaders so insistent on coming back? What's your, what's your philosophy on that? I'm amazed by the, the determination by some, and they're very vocal, but some have been very vocal about it. What's your, what's your assessment of that?
Jenny Moebius:I I think again it's going back to the basics it's a trust issue. Um, a lot of leaders, you know, really prefer, you know, having people right next to them, seeing them work, in order to trust that they're doing their work, and I'll dive into this a little later. But you know, it's best to have outcome-based performance and not location-based performance.
John Broer:Yes, yes.
Jenny Moebius:Because there's so many benefits to allowing people to have flexibility in their lives that you know you could pretty easily see if they're not doing their jobs, no matter where they're working from if they're not meeting their goals.
John Broer:Well, I'm sorry. So we talk about an old framework and a new framework. That seems like a very old framework and we had Dr Todd do it on a couple of years ago and he talked about we have to start managing by outcome and not observation, just like you said. Ok, thank you for that.
Jenny Moebius:Correct. Yeah, yeah, it's. It is interesting. It's almost like COVID just kind of put us all in a panic and we forgot the basics of managing people. It's, it's not that that has changed, it's just that we're not working in the same place. It really is that simple, yeah.
John Broer:Okay, can I ask you?
Sara Best:a question, john. You talked about what about the leaders who seem stuck in this mindset of we got to be in person. What do you think has helped shift, jenny, for those leaders who've been able to open up their minds and go? You know, this is a better way to do it. What work to help them understand this?
Jenny Moebius:employee engagement is one of them. The leaders that measure, you know, employee NPS or employee net promoter score. It's the leaders that listen to their teams and their employees. And then it's the productivity levels. It's the economic return. That's what's, you know, catching people's eyes. Oh, we can offer flexibility and we can still be you know-performing business.
Sara Best:Right Got it.
John Broer:Thank you for that little detour. Let's talk now about those five categories.
Jenny Moebius:Sure, sure. So I'm all about right now that the debate is over how do we do it right and what do we really need to focus on?
Jenny Moebius:So the first one is policy, and maybe I should stop at each one so that we can have a little conversation about it, versus just like listing them out. So the very important first one is policy. So we talked about this already is how do we engage our employees to build the policy together? And then how do we empower teams to actually decide on the policy? So Gallup found that 46% of employees say they're more engaged when their work team decides on the hybrid work policy together.
Jenny Moebius:And that is what is actually causing more joy in organizations. It's, you know, causing people to leave less because they're more joyful at work. And really it just takes one work from home day to reduce attrition. So one team level agreements super important and two, just having some kind of hybrid work is already reducing attrition and bringing in more talent. Right, because you can. When you have hybrid work, people's commutes become less of a burden. If they say, oh, I just need to come in one or two days a week, I can manage that. I can manage my family schedule around one or two days a week. I can manage my family schedule around one or two days a week. So again, like increased joy, increased retention, less attrition and something I haven't mentioned yet is actually more diversity. So Allstate adopted this model had everything on the team level and they saw job applications soar 23% and 33% increase among women and people of color. So offering that flexibility also brings in more diverse candidates, so very important.
John Broer:Well, the other word that came to my mind was inclusion, meaning we are including you, you are helping to shape the policy. Being asked that question or given that opportunity to be able to say I'm going to influence and speak into this policy, that's huge. That is addressing what the emerging workforce, which is, you know, evolving, wants, that's great. Okay, so policy All right, makes total sense.
Jenny Moebius:Yep. So policy is the first one. Any other questions, Sarah? Any other questions, Sarah?
Sara Best:No, I was just going to comment that Aaron Dignan spoke directly to this idea of, you know, inclusive debate and discussion internally and then adoption of policies only when people agree, and that they can challenge, and they've actually developed a whole system and software. He's the author, by the way, for our listeners, of Brave New Work. We talk about him often. We met him at Optima 20, I don't know, 2021.
John Broer:Yeah, he was on the program. I'll put that in the show notes. I mean, he was on there too Good.
Jenny Moebius:Okay, yeah, no, definitely, and we do that at Sketa as well. The marketing team comes in Wednesday and Thursday. That at skedda as well. The the marketing team comes in wednesday and thursday, and that was an agreement among the team members. Um, the sales team comes in tuesday and thursday. And maybe something I haven't mentioned is that importance of overlap, importance of having teams in at the same time so that you're not just showing up to work and, uh, nobody's there, right, right.
Jenny Moebius:And then you have, you know, incredible commute regret and you just become more unhappy in your work. And so this is an opportunity to share a little bit more about Sketa, where you can see all your coworkers who are coming in, where they're sitting, so that you know, oh, I'm not gonna waste this day by coming into the office, I'm going to have these collaborative moments with my peers because I know that they're coming in. So that's actually a good segue into the second category, which is office design. So something really important to think about is how much collaborative spaces are on the rise. Think about is how much collaborative spaces are on the rise. 58% go into the office for connection, 15% just for focus work, and that's a study by CBRE. So just kind of leaning into the fact that it's not just about having a bunch of desks anymore, individual desks or private desks. It's about creating spaces where people can get their best work done. So I love Gensler. I don't know if you know Janet Pogue McLaurin. She was on my podcast, definitely one of my favorites. Gensler ran a survey with 14,000 workers and found that four categories of spaces were essential Individual work, creative group work, reflecting and restoring and connecting and recharging and we're used to individual work sure, we're used to creative group work, we have meeting rooms, but this reflecting and restoring and the connecting and recharging really resonated with me.
Jenny Moebius:Something that I really recommend doing is forming neighborhoods for these exact reasons. So, for instance, you could have a neighborhood in your office that's just for quiet work and you can have a neighborhood in your office that's just for louder work, sales folks, bdrs, sdrs that's something that's missing from remote work is having people listen to the conversations like how are you marketing this, how are you selling this? I would say probably heavy on sales and marketing. For the louder areas, we need to dig into data, we need to have places for focus work, and so the way that we design our offices is changing and again, the first place to start is listening to your employees.
Sara Best:What do you?
Jenny Moebius:need, right, yeah. And what's going to make this workplace experience, this new way of working, most productive for you?
John Broer:You know, Jenny, what strikes me also is obviously all of our backgrounds in behavioral analytics. We all know that there are some of us that have a desire the three of us, as a matter of fact for community connecting. But we also do need that quiet, reflective time. There is a huge company here in Columbus, well-known, and they built this amazing well-known and they built this amazing.
John Broer:This was pre-COVID, this expansive, amazing campus, but there were no spaces to go and work alone. I mean, there were a few and far between, but it was all this open concept when that was like super popular and you just knew that that was going to be a mistake. You can't have just. You can't go from all isolated individual desks to no holds barred, no walls, no, nothing whatsoever. You have to have that and I love that combination that makes so much sense. Thanks for that. I mean to me I'm envisioning workplaces where I've worked and how one in particular actually was in Toledo, sarah. They had all that and I'm not sure that they did it intentionally, but you had those different neighborhoods. I love that. I love that metaphor.
Sara Best:I'm thinking of a previous employer of mine that, well before COVID, designed several floors within a multiple story building, just that way that you described. I think the four areas of focus were represented and people were like I don't really know what to do with this. It was bumpy at first and now I think all their floors are that way. But what I thought about is for the people that you know, they're more private and introspective, they like to have their space, or the ones who like to, you know, mark their territory with their pictures and what not to take us off track, jenny. But what about those people who like? How do we shift the mindset? Like I don't have, I don't claim this one space and have all my stuff, like my drawer of snacks and my pictures, and you know it's mobile. How did you? How do people deal with that?
Jenny Moebius:Sure. So the first thing is to have a workplace management platform where you can book your desk, right? Because once you have that, so we obviously use Sketa at Sketa and I get on the train on Wednesday and I go onto my app and I say, oh, this desk is open and it's next to other marketers, right, we have more of a marketing neighborhood than a loud versus quiet, and so I can book my desk and that way, when I come into the office I feel very comfortable knowing that that's my space for the day.
Jenny Moebius:I don't have to share it. I can bring a picture of my family. I could put it on the desk for the day. Obviously, it's still important to have shared snacks in an office, don't forget about your snacks?
John Broer:Oh yeah, oh yeah.
Jenny Moebius:So you know, we have a snack. We still have like snack drawers and lots of things for people to feel most comfortable. But it really is about being able to book something in advance to have that level of comfort when you come into the office, especially if you're used to more permanent seating.
Sara Best:So great, that is a great solution.
Jenny Moebius:The third category and you know, near and dear to all of our hearts is having the right tech stack to bridge the physical and remote worlds. I really this one is really important. I know people, you know, say they lose their productivity because of tech that doesn't work right, and people are miscommunicating and not communicating because hybrid work is so much harder from a communication perspective. So what I recommend is having well, first is talking to your employees, seeing what they need, but, especially if you're globally dispersed, like most companies are today, to bring in the right talent is having a system of expectations so you know what's expected of you when you come to the office, whether you're in the office or remotely. For instance, are you expected to be on chat, slack Teams or Google Chat, you know? Are you expected to be on there all day? Right, what are the expectations for response times and how do you best use that with your global teams? And I think it's super important and also going back to the basics and simplicity. So I'll give you an example.
Jenny Moebius:I had an employee start and I'll talk about this a little later too, but in the Gen Z, a Gen Z employee and poor Gen Z right, they were in college during COVID. They didn't have a ton of mentors, they didn't have a ton of in-person interaction, they didn't have internships right, they were just a lot was taken from Gen Z and I just assumed that people knew right that they had to be online when they worked from home between certain hours and I just assumed that they knew that response time should be about an hour. You know, give or take for remote communication. This person was kind of all over the place and I was. Just I started, so here's a tip right. Just just I started, so here's, here's a tip Right. I felt like I was becoming a little bit of a boss hole because I was assuming that this person wasn't working hard and I was falling victim to what we talked about at the beginning, which is, I'm used to a Monday through Friday, nine to five. That's how I grew up in the work world.
Jenny Moebius:And so I started having really false assumptions about this person. When I took a step back I checked myself and I realized I have to set expectations for these people. I have to teach them how to work in this new world of work so that those assumptions don't exist and so we can kind of nip them in the bud. So that was a lesson learned for me as a manager of Gen Z in the hybrid world is, from day one have those expectations set. I actually have them at the end of every weekly meeting. I just have them living there.
Jenny Moebius:It's hybrid work expectations, so that nobody has any questions about what's expected of them. Pure gold, well, thank you, but it really is like what we've always been doing, just not through the hybrid work lens.
Sara Best:Right.
Jenny Moebius:And that's why I kind of emphasize intentionality so much, because, yes, you do have to change the way you manage because of this lens.
Jenny Moebius:One other thing so loom is really important. So I'm not sure if you're familiar with Loom, but it's basically a mechanism to record your face with the work that you've been doing and in order to share it out with people who you may not be overlapping hours with in your workday. So one of my favorite things that we do at Skedda is you finish a day of work. You can't communicate with your EMEA APAC people at the moment. So what do you do? You sit down, you record a loom of all that's been done five minute loom. You share your screen with your face and then when they wake up on their day, they can get started on where you finished off. And again, same with remote work and you know not seeing people every day If they can wake up and feel prepared for their day by just simply recording something for them, that's another way that you can bridge the virtual and the physical gap and really takes five minutes.
John Broer:See what I mean Very practical tips to help you understand how do we manage the idea of a virtual or remote or hybrid workforce. Go into the show notes and you will see a link to part two of that episode with Jenny Mobius. Great stuff and super helpful for our organizations that are giving this some serious thought. See you soon.