The Bosshole® Chronicles

Thanksgiving 2025 - "Thank you sir, may I have another!"

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Gratitude gets real when work gets hard. We mark Thanksgiving by leaning into the uncomfortable truth that thankfulness isn’t just for cozy moments—it’s a practical, biological, and leadership-level tool for moving from fight or flight into calm, focus, and connection. John and Sara reflect on why gratitude helps leaders navigate tough feedback, toxic dynamics, and the wider “emotional recession” many teams feel today.

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John Broer:

A very Happy Thanksgiving 2025 to all of our friends out there in The Boss hole Transformation Nation. This is your host, John Broer. Joining me today will be none other than Sara Best. Yep. We're gonna do an episode focused on Thanksgiving and perhaps take a slightly different approach to it. But I also want to assure all of you out there listening how thankful we are for your support and participation with the Boss Hole Chronicles five years. I can't believe it. It's been five years, and you have helped to make this podcast reach the top 10% of podcasts worldwide. So we are very thankful for that. But now let's talk about Thanksgiving 2025 and jump into the episode. The Bosshole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode. Well, hey Sarah. How's it going?

Sara Best:

Hi, John. Oh, it's real good. It's going real good.

John Broer:

It is real good. Yeah. No, I'm excited that we're back here. Um you and I have had, we haven't had much time to do an episode together. You've been busy, I've been busy. You and Karen did a great one a few weeks ago, and we've had some solo ones, but I thought, gosh, the Tuesday before Thanksgiving, 2025, I would love to come together with my good friend and business partner, Sara Best, and talk about things for which we are thankful, but maybe in a slightly different way. How does that sound to you?

Sara Best:

I think it sounds spot on and very timely.

John Broer:

Well, uh, I I just want to prepare everybody that, well, first of all, the we we said this before we started recording. I mean, how thankful for we are for family and our work together and all of those wonderful things. But I'm reminded at this time of year, and I should be all the time, is just a piece of um scripture that I remember from James, the book of James, where it says, consider it pure joy whenever you face trials of many kinds. And I always, you know, found that a bit confusing because it's like, do you remember in um Animal House when Kevin Bacon was, you know, kneeling down and he was getting slapped in the backside and he said, Thank you, sir, may I have another? Um, I know that's my twisted way of thinking, like saying, Thank you, God, can I have can I have another?

Sara Best:

But honestly, sir, may I have some more?

John Broer:

Yes. But but it's the sort of thing where you know, is it possible to look at our trials and our difficulties and be truly and authentically thankful and understanding how these can help shape us? And I think about the word gratitude. I mean, you just recently had, you have a gratitude breakfast with um dear friends of yours. You've done it for years, and this is a really important time to do this, but would you help us think about gratitude? Give us a perspective and share it with our audience.

Sara Best:

I'm happy to do that, John. And I just have to comment, you know, the scripture you quoted, uh it it is elusive. And it's hard to imagine that we're meant to be grateful for adversity and challenge. I mean, we're certainly not promised a life without challenge. But as you and I were reflecting before we hit record today, we certainly, I don't know, I certainly wouldn't be where I am had I not faced, you know, difficult trials and tribulations. Um, I remember when I was younger, you know, my mom would say, Well, this is such a great learning opportunity. And I would be like, Okay, God, enough of the learning opportunities, you know, when I made a mistake or when I moved in the wrong direction. But what I think you're pointing toward, and what we want to offer our listeners as we head, you know, into Thanksgiving time and then the holidays that come after that is is the opportunity to shift our minds. And there's there's science and biology to this, there's there's choice, and there's certainly all kinds of support for that.

John Broer:

You have a really helpful way of looking at gratitude.

Sara Best:

I'm really grateful for the people who taught me about gratitude. And and there's been so many good authors, and of course, what we know to be true about gratitude is it's the quickest hack to get from a below-the-line state where we may feel frustrated, triggered, activated, annoyed, bothered, uh, left out, overlooked, disenchanted, disengaged, to a more uh engaged, open, curious, committed to learning, fully alive state. And, you know, we've talked on the podcast here before about above the line and below the line. We've highlighted um, gosh, I can't remember the original, I don't know where that originated, the above the line, below the line, but I know the conscious leadership group, Jim Dethmer has has written about that in the 15 commitments of conscious leadership. Brene Brown highlights it in her newest book called Strong Ground, just came out about a month ago. And and so gratitude becomes uh a vehicle, a medium, a mindset that allows us to move from frustration and angst and separation and anxiety and worry and anger to a state of full aliveness where there's joy and peace and connection. And yes, even with the dynamics we have going on in the world today. So I just think it's really important. There are scientific benefits. Can I share those very quickly?

John Broer:

Yeah, let's hear them.

Sara Best:

I mean, for the people out there who are a little skeptical, going, yeah, whatever. Oh, okay, so I say thank you. No, when you do that, here's what happens in your body. Uh, you shift your nervous system out of fight or flight. So anytime our ego gets a little triggered by something, we will run, you know, full-on fight or flight in our bodies, adrenaline, the whole bit, and then the cortisol and the other hormones and um they they all have to jump in to try to create homeostasis. And the reason we don't have that ever is because we're usually in a constant state of uh arousal and agitation. So fight or flight is pretty normal. So it reduces our heart rate, it reduces stress almost immediately. It takes away that startle response where you know we're clinching and and blood is rushing out to the limbs. So if that isn't enough to help people, like just listeners where you are right now, just take a little breath in. Like stop not if you're driving, don't close your eyes or anything like that, but just take a breath in and and notice what's happening. Is your heart racing? You know, are you grabbing the steering wheel pretty hard? Are you fretting about the next thing? Gratitude does lower stress hormones. So the things that are meant to protect our body from overstress are now overworking. We have adrenal fatigue, we have diagnoses now that are directly related to this overload of stress hormones. It also, hello, increases dopamine. So it's better than shopping on Amazon or uh drifting over to Instagram, which not that I ever do that. You know, when we drift, we're looking for a dopamine hit. I'm gonna just distract my attention away from something that's uncomfortable. Gratitude and appreciation do better than that. It's like running a mini marathon. It like fixes your body, regulates emotion, gets you out of a negative spiral, uh, shifting your state more quickly. And just two more things. One is it reduces inflammation. So I don't know about you, John, but at my age, like sometimes my fingers hurt, you know, my knuckles, my knees.

John Broer:

Yeah.

Sara Best:

That's inflammation. And and it makes our brain foggy, it makes our digestion system messed up. So why would we not? It's free to have gratitude as a way to reduce inflammation. And then um heart health. It helps regulate uh the variability in our heart. It lowers our blood pressure, it creates more endurance for this stress over time. Oh, and I forgot one more, which is also okay, there's two more, John. It's sleep and immune function. So the last thing we'll say about the biology, and and I mean we could probably talk for an hour about this, but gratitude is in fact an access to all things that are good for us, nothing bad.

unknown:

Yeah.

Sara Best:

Improving sleep, um, improving our immune function, and all the other things I mentioned. Whoa, it's a lot.

John Broer:

Again, it takes something that seems rather elusive and makes it very practical. And it and it's practical for every single individual, everybody listening to this program, and and of course all of us. And the the other thing that I I love the idea when you say it's a hack. And to me, a hack is something that I I need to use it right now.

Sara Best:

Yes.

John Broer:

Because otherwise I'm going to I'm gonna spin out. And it's going to change my and as you said, our my mindset or the my mental map of how I'm looking at whatever this circumstance may be. Um but I think that that is so critical because you and I talked about how in our work, not only in our work with our clients, but also the stories we hear with them in the boss or on the bosshole chronicles, I mean, there are people that are living, I mean, they are they are they're miserable in their work. And I I mean, again, I to a degree, we always encourage people to think about what part of that do you own personally.

Sara Best:

Yeah.

John Broer:

And yet you may work for a a a bosshole. You know, you I I just I just recorded an episode with uh Dr. George Reed, and he's gonna be in, he wrote a book called Um Toxic Leadership, but it was in the military, and he talks about, you know, these poisonous, um, toxic I mean, it it's a s it's a smaller fraction, but their impact on the workplace is so high. And then I think about those people that may work for a toxic leader or a bosshole, and it's like, how do you take that? And and how do you convince somebody to say, well, I'm I'm so grateful for this, this person for whom I work that is making my life miserable. And that is a huge leap, a mental leap, but it's but a lot of times, you know, we're always encouraging them to think about what is it that you can draw from that circumstance.

Sara Best:

I think that when someone's dealing with a bosshole, so what when the the way they're being treated at work is is unfair and unkind and it's not healthy, that's one of many factors that I think contributes to the stress and the chaos and what the statistics are all telling us in this day and age, that emotional intelligence skills are going down. Uh I think John, you and I were talking before today's session about what's called the emotional recession, the emotional recession, which has uh a price tag and a cost to it, much like the the Great Recession of 2008. That's why they're calling it the emotional recession. It just says that, you know, we're connected now more than ever uh through technology and other things, but we've never been more alone. And so, in the cases like a bad boss, uh feeling like you're failing at your performance, um, feeling disconnected from purpose, that's something you and I also talked about is what about our why? Like how can our why become a really fortified foundation for being able to endure stressful and challenging, uh tumultuous things? 44% of people report daily stress, according to Gallup. And I will just say McKinsey says two and three leaders cite emotional exhaustion as their biggest challenge. So we know people are hurting and suffering. And we would say, in that case, John, we're talking really about emotional intelligence. EQ is not a soft skill, it's a survival skill. Gratitude is right in there as a methodology for creating emotional resilience and sustainability.

John Broer:

Yeah. The idea that EQ is a survival skill, I think, is so powerful because I have um within the last month, I've had a chance to work with a number of our a number of our clients and their managers and supervisors because we are taking a number of clients through at this time of year their engagement assessments. And you know, we have a an amazing platform to gather this data. But what's really unique is that it creates very specific detail for managers from their direct reports, as long as you know it's more than five people, you know, responding to it just to maintain that best practice. But the thing that's so amazing, and I think that's why this was so so close to the surface for me, is that in every single one of these sessions, I've had to remind them that you are going to receive, some of you are going to receive data and feedback that is very hard to take. And and I said it's okay to be, it's okay to feel those feelings. I mean, it's okay to feel hurt. It's okay, okay to feel disappointed or confused and completely taken off guard. It's now what you do with that information moving forward that will define who you are as a leader, as a manager. And I I will tell you, there were there were people that were, I mean, distraught. And you know, I I remember speaking to and saying, as as hard as this is, I'm asking you to embrace this and look at it as something that's very favorable and very positive because your people took the time to share this with you. Yeah. And I know it's going to be very hard for them. And so that's, you know, finding gratitude in that is really, really difficult for people.

Sara Best:

Well, I that takes us off, or, you know, could easily take us off into a whole nother direction about why do we I'll speak for myself. Why do I get so triggered uh when people tell me something that feels critical or that feels it's because there's a part of me that believes it's true. It's because there's a part of me that fears the worst. Like because of that, you're not going to approve of me any longer or I don't add value. And that's a whole ego thing. Every one of us has to develop a stronger sense of self-awareness and to know what our weak spots are. Like where are we likely to get hooked so that we're not fully available to hear the things, the very important and precious things people took the courage and time to share.

John Broer:

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Sara Best:

So, John, back to your original point and the scripture quote like wow, being grateful for tribulation, being grateful for trials as opportunities to learn and grow. Maybe what we could do is kind of end on the idea that you don't have to have hardship to have gratitude and you still get the same benefits. The other thing we need to know about how our brain works is, you know, we're replacing thoughts. So mindset shifts are when we move one mindset out and move another one in. I was just at a leadership uh workshop this morning, hosted here locally uh by the chamber, and the presenter was talking about, you know, our basically she was talking about our mental maps and how when we're kids, you know, there are things that we decide about ourselves and the world that get really hardwired and they're unconscious to us. Like I'm not good at math. In order for me to be appealing to people, I have to look or sound this way. I I just can't read music. Whatever it might be, and and everyone has their own individual set of mental maps.

John Broer:

Right.

Sara Best:

Self-awareness is what helps us identify those, and then we can begin to decode those. But knowing it means I can change it. So um the mental map we're looking for with gratitude is to help the mind develop more wiring around seeing what's good versus the natural and sort of hard wiring to notice what's wrong, either in ourselves and other people. And I mean, I'm I'm not a doctor, I'm not a scientist, so I'm saying it in my own plain English, but you're swapping out the ideas. The brain doesn't know the difference. Whether your brain hears, I suck at math, or it hears, I am so grateful, you know, to have the family that I have or to have the opportunity I have to learn and grow. It doesn't know the difference, but it will respond to either one, either from an above-the-line or below-the-line place.

John Broer:

Is that helpful? Oh my gosh, yes. And and I and I think about in practical terms, people would be saying, okay, guys, I mean, this is all well and good, but how do I actually make it work? And I think about the times. As a matter of fact, Sarah, I think it was, yeah, November of 2022. You and I did an episode called Gratitude in the Workplace. Um interesting how it's it's necessary to circle back to this and how it's more important than ever. But what is a practical way to do it? And I think about, we've shared with our audiences to, for example, a gratitude journal, Mark Ostech, that that, you know, his journal, his I mean, actually writing down, I mean committing to paper with your not typing it into your computer or your phone, but like literally writing it out makes it very real. And if you get into that, that habit, and it doesn't have to take a long time, but in the morning or sometime during the day, during the day, capture the things for which you are truly grateful. And some of those may be really crappy things, like, you know, thank you for the the feedback I got from my team. That was really hard to hear. And I need to, and I, and I need to embrace it or I I need to think about how this shapes who I am. Whatever that is.

Sara Best:

I got a good one, John.

John Broer:

Yeah.

Sara Best:

Thank you for the flood that happened in our basement last week when the sprinkler system froze, because now we get to sort through all the stuff that's contained down there and clear it out. And I mean that. Like I'm grateful that that happened, otherwise it would have sat there for another 20 years.

John Broer:

Right. Yeah. The kids would have had to deal with it, right?

Sara Best:

That's right.

John Broer:

Yeah. We actually use that as an excuse. Um, but it is a different mindset. And so as you, as you as we, you know, are a day and or two days away from Thanksgiving of this year, let me say, well, first of all, Sarah, I'm very thankful for you. I'm thankful for our work together, how fun it's been. I'm also, and I know you share this, I'm very thankful for the people that are listening out there. When we started this five years ago, we had no idea it would grow to this level. And now having people come up and say, hey, I've listened to this or I love this episode, and we're just very grateful for that. And at the same time, you know, you and I can look back on a year of uh, you know, wonderful things and also our own trials. And it's like thankful for that. And it's like that is shaping who we are individually and collectively and and how we continue to grow as professionals, even at yeah, I know I'm older than you, but at at this age.

Sara Best:

Mm-hmm. I too, John, am grateful for challenges, you know, that we face as partners, as business owners. And I'm grateful that there's a relationship strong enough to be able to talk about it. Because I think in a lot of cases, we encounter leaders who who shut down or work around instead of working with and through. And uh that's hard. I'm glad you mentioned Mark Ostach's uh little gratitude journal too. It reminded me that I need a prompt, like I sometimes I need a little guidance, like give me a structure to work within.

John Broer:

Yeah.

Sara Best:

Because if I was left to my own devices, you know, I I might get, I don't know, inundated or overwhelmed.

John Broer:

Like, how do I distracted too? Or am I doing it right or anything else like that? Yeah.

Sara Best:

Yeah. We'll make sure to put a link to his little gratitude books in our show notes here because they're like five dollars. And you can buy them for your whole organization if you wanted to. Um, he, by the way, is a great speaker about digital detox and uh purpose and all that stuff. Mark is a fantastic human. The other thing, John, we can put in the show notes is a copy of something I created this year for the gratitude breakfast that we hold annually. It's called the Gratitude and Appreciation Worksheet. And again, just a series of great prompts like personal gratitude, relationships and connection, work and purpose. So each category has like 10 or 12 different prompts. And they're things that I wouldn't have thought of. So for example, um, I'm grateful for the laughter I share with you fill in the blank. Um I'm thankful for someone who believes in me because so it it helps us expand the way we think about how gratitude takes place.

John Broer:

Yeah.

Sara Best:

Um a moment I felt especially valued at work was, or my favorite, I'm thankful for the feedback that helped me.

John Broer:

Blank. Nice. Oh, I love that.

Sara Best:

Make sure we put that in there.

John Broer:

It will be in there. So a link to Mark's gratitude journals, a link to your handout, that'll be awesome.

Sara Best:

Well, and I think you can hearken back to the other episode we did in 2022, but I remember we talked about new good and grateful, like starting every meeting with a check-in that says, what are you grateful for? Why? Because of all those things we said happens to your body when you show gratitude, when you think about gratitude. Why not start a meeting in a state of calm and presence and readiness versus I just ran from another meeting, I haven't used the restroom in four hours and I'm starving.

John Broer:

Yeah.

Sara Best:

Like, could we settle in? So new good and grateful is an easy one. And lately I've been giving in all the facilitated workshops we've been doing or my leadership sessions, I bring gratitude cards. I happen to know somebody who sells really cute gratitude cards. We could put a link to that in the show notes too. Um, the card says so grateful for you. And I give them to the members of the workshop. And I say your homework is to send this to somebody or give this to somebody who has helped you. You know, who you're grateful for. So simple things. Just take a minute.

John Broer:

Take a minute. That's awesome. Well, listen, everybody out there, have an amazing, wonderful, and blessed Thanksgiving. And uh, I'm just so glad, Sarah, that we had a chance to usher in Thanksgiving with this kind of episode.

Sara Best:

Me too, John. Good work. What's a good one? I guess we'll see you next time on the Boss Hole Chronicles.

John Broer:

Thanks very much for checking out this episode of the Bosshole Chronicles. It was so good to have you here. And if you have your own Boss Hole story that you want to share with the Bosshole Transformation Nation, just reach out. You can email us at mystory at the Bosshole Chronicles.com. Again, my story at the Bosshole Chronicles.com. We'll see you next time.