Sara and John - The Heart of a Leader

Pressure doesn’t turn you into a different leader. It turns the lights on. John Broer sits down with Sara Best to unpack what they call “the heart of a leader,” the most elusive part of their whole person model (Head, Heart, and Briefcase, plus Baggage). The goal is practical: give managers and supervisors a way to check what’s driving their behavior before stress pulls them into control, avoidance, or classic Bosshole® mode.

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Transcript

Welcome And The Leadership Focus

John Broer 0:03

Welcome to all of our friends out there in The Boss hole Transformation Nation. This is your host, John Broer, welcoming you to another installment of The Boss hole Chronicles. And today I'm going to be joined by none other than Sara Best, my great friend and business partner. We're going to be talking about the heart of the leader. Over the years, you have heard us talk about head heart and briefcase. Well, and baggage, but the head heart and briefcase, whole person model, is something that's really critical for businesses to understand, and we are going to speak specifically about the heart of a leader. This is one of those more elusive and more difficult aspects of the whole person model, but we're going to narrow it down to three key attributes and traits that we believe effective leaders must possess. So let's jump in.

Announcer 1:02

The Bosshole Chronicles are brought to you by Real Good Ventures, a talent optimization firm helping organizations diagnose their most critical people and execution issues with world-class analytics. Make sure to check out all the resources in the show notes and be sure to follow us and share your feedback. Enjoy today's episode.

Sara Best 1:24

Hey everybody, welcome back to The Bosshole Chronicles. John, it is great to be with you today in studio again. How are you doing?

John Broer 1:32

Real good, Sara. I'm I'm great. And we always say this. It's always wonderful to be having these conversations with you. I love it.

Why The Heart Is Elusive

Sara Best 1:40

I do too. It's pretty special. I think we have an interesting topic today, John. Please enlighten us. What will we be discussing today?

John Broer 1:48

Well, Sarah, a couple of weeks ago, I was inspired about this topic, The Heart of a Leader from Church. I was actually Barbara and I were at church, and there was a wonderful, like we were going through an eight-week series of first and second Peter. And uh in the notes that were provided, there were some wonderful, very poignant notes about leadership. And all our listeners know that we talk about the head, the heart, and the briefcase and baggage, but head, heart, and briefcase, that whole person model, the briefcase, very easy to identify, the head where behavioral and cognitive data lives. Those are all very more definable, if you will, but the heart's a little bit more elusive when you talk about core values and a person's passions. And I thought, wow, these leadership principles are all about the heart of a leader. And I thought, man, this would be awesome to talk to Sarah about or have a conversation with Sarah and how relevant this is. And I believe we've talked about all of these in different elements throughout the five and a half years that we've been doing this. But I thought, let's just break these down a little bit and give our listeners out there and our leaders and managers an opportunity to reflect and say, where is my heart relative to these points? How does that sound?

Sara Best 3:05

I think that sounds great. Uh we'll keep it straight and to the point. We have three important points today or three important items. Tell us the first one, John.

John Broer 3:14

Okay. The first one is pressure doesn't test what you're made of, it exposes it. So when I think about that, I think about all the conversations we've had about change readiness and the velocity of change and how the workplace can get very chaotic. And we know that managers and supervisors are feeling a lot of pressure. There is a lot of disengagement at that level in an organization. And I think what happens is that pressure exposes, and we absolutely saw this happen during COVID. And I'm not sure we've evolved much past that. Uh, I know some a lot of our clients have, and a lot of managers have, but we still see this lack of capacity to deal with pressure. And if somebody erupts, if a boss hole behavior shows up, all of a sudden it is exposed. And I don't see a lot of evidence that would suggest that the velocity of change is going to diminish in the near future. So, so people have to do that introspection and check their heart when it comes to how do I deal with pressure. So, what are your what are your thoughts on that?

Sara Best 4:27

Well, I agree that complexity and challenge and adversity are going to continue and maybe even get worse. Who knows? But as I think about, you know, when we talk to leaders about how they're coping, you know, what are the things that they do uh to replenish, restore, uh, reposition themselves, um, and not not just so they can get back in the fight, but so that they can have well-being and they can be present and available to their employees and to their families. You know, it it's difficult. I I do think that pressure exposes our humanity. So I just add the idea that uh it it what we're made of is kind of the same. We're all humans. And under pressure, many of us are unconscious of the fact that we go to fight or flight. And in order to survive fight or flight, you know, we we in order to survive the threat that we probably experience, we become these like personas and we take on these roles, and they're not unique to each person. In fact, we could all probably resonate. And by the way, what I'm speaking to here comes from the work of the conscious leadership group, which if people have been listening to the podcast, you know, we're big fans of the conscious leadership process. So all I would say here too is gosh, yeah, pressure doesn't test what you're made of, it exposes it. And could you, as a leader, take a minute and have some maybe some acceptance and some allowance for the fact that you're human. And these are tough times. And everything that we do when we're working with people is kind of a tough time, if you think about it. People are annoying, people are frustrating, people are different than us. People cause challenge. However, um, in those moments where the heat goes up, the pressure goes up, the question then becomes like, what do you have to stand on for yourself? And are you aware of that? Are you defaulting? Because most of us do. We're unconscious to the fact that we default to these ways of being just so that we can survive, which makes total sense, doesn't it? I mean, it just makes sense.

John Broer 6:41

It does make sense. It does make sense. And I and I think about, you know, when I think about the word pressure, I I think about uh the word crisis comes to mind. And I I mean, we've always talked about your behavioral DNA absolutely tells a story or provides some guidance about how a person deals with pressure or crisis. And, you know, when when we're doing coaching, leadership coaching or working with a client and saying, how do you respond or react when when the pressure increases? And and what are your what are your tools for self-regulation and being able to manage that so it doesn't blow everything up? Now that gets to also emotional intelligence, okay, the the skills and the tools of emotional intelligence and also psychological safety. You know, at the root of psychological safety is team performance. It's not a fuzzy sort of HR term. This is a real measurable element to a team. Yeah. And the and the leader, the manager plays, like it or not, a disproportionately larger role in establishing or diminishing psychological safety. And man, I tell you what, when the pressure is on and a team is facing crisis, the leaders and the managers that can navigate that pressure most effectively are the ones that are going to coalesce and have a more successful result with their team. And the others are just, it's just gonna fail. It's just, it's just gonna wither out.

Sara Best 8:06

Yeah. John, I want to share just a quick example. Uh, I was meeting with a colleague earlier today, and we were uh looking at data. We had emotional intelligence and predictive index data for a team of an executive team of leaders for an organization. And it it's a merged uh organization, a result of uh an acquisition and some other things. So it's very they're in transition and whatnot. But the theory we developed, having looked at each of these individuals and you know, they're coping as it is sort of outlined in the emotional intelligence data, we saw low optimism, we saw low stress tolerance, we saw low self-regard. And when we looked at the PI data, you know, we saw captains and mavericks and venturers and strategists and analyzers. These are uh typically behavioral patterns, headwiring that says I'm confident in my own ideas, you know, I'm independent, I'm autonomous. Yet we saw scores and assertiveness and independence that were low. So we developed a theory that we could have a bosshole chief leader, because these are highly accomplished people managing inordinately large books of business, and yet uh they're showing up as having low self-regard, low optimism, uh, in some cases, poor interpersonal relationship. So it's based on what you just said. Like this is an example of the challenge that one person's energy can create for a team of very competent people.

John Broer 9:42

Yes.

Sara Best 9:43

They start to doubt themselves, they start to um falter in decision making, they start to contract and withdraw their opinions and survive.

John Broer 9:54

Yeah.

Sara Best 9:55

So I'll I'll let you know later if my theory was correct.

John Broer 9:59

Uh I trust that it probably is, uh, because we have data on our side, but but the um uh I think it goes back to if you're if you're listening and you're asking yourself, you know, do I have the heart of a leader? Ask yourself the question, how do you deal with pressure and crisis on your team? And by the way, best way to find out is to ask them, which is exactly what you're finding out through data. Yeah. Um, because people suck at self-evaluation. Uh I used to have a colleague that said, Oh, no, no, I'm I'm, you know, it's really good to be good, you know, self-evaluation. You got to do good self-evaluation. Well, if you if you're just talking to yourself and you don't have any data or feedback, what else are you gonna hear?

Leading With A Whole Body Yes

Sara Best 10:39

It's fair. It's a fair statement. So, John, uh, the second idea, lead willingly and not reluctantly or under compulsion. Uh, tell us what do we mean here?

John Broer 10:50

Well, I'm really excited for what you're gonna share about this one, because I think you have some great insight on this, Sarah. But when you're put in a leadership role, I would suggest, or if you're given the opportunity to move into a leadership role, management or supervisory role, you have to really understand is this something you're willing to do? Make decisions, even though those decisions may be wrong and have the humility to admit when you've been wrong. But if you're reluctant or you feel like you're being forced to do it, or you know, the word compulsion is interesting. We talked a little bit a bit about this, and you can talk more about it. I I think I think this is a real gut check. And um, well, actually, I don't want to take I don't want to take your insights. I I I'm I want our listeners to hear your perspective on leading willingly.

Sara Best 11:45

Well, I learned about something called the whole body yes uh in my conscious leadership uh training. And uh they even talk about it in the book called The Fifteen Commitments of Conscious Leadership by Jim Detmer and Diana Chapman. Highly recommend. It it's this idea that if there's even a little teeny no, it's still a big no. It's not a whole body yes. And for so many reasons, which we've talked about in many other episodes, leaders often say yes to a promotion or expanded responsibilities because they feel like they have no choice. This is this is the only way I'll get higher pay or higher status. This is what I've worked for my whole life, I should do it. So I I think the um willingly, not reluctantly is addressing those kind of things like, hey, I I don't know if I'll be good at this. That's more like the imposter syndrome. Right. I'm reluctant. Uh, I don't want to, and then let's just talk for a second, John, about when you make decisions as a leader, leading reluctantly in my mind versus leading willingly, willingly says, hey, my responsibility here is to make decisions and to see the landscape, to understand what the data tells me about our performance and to make decisions based on what I know.

John Broer 13:12

Right.

Sara Best 13:13

I have an example recently um talked with a CEO a couple of different times about a frustration with a CFO in the organization. And there was big fat question marks in his mind about this individual's performance and even maybe their character to some degree. There was a misalignment around the behavioral drives of this person based on how they really needed him to work in the organization. But there was him hawing, and there was a lot of emphasis on the story part of frustration with this individual versus perhaps weighing those things along with the data, considering a bigger picture, like the cost on the team, the cost to the people who have to deal with someone whose performance isn't meeting the standard. So leading willingly would say, gosh, you know, I really this makes me uncomfortable. I really wish I didn't have to do this, but I'm gonna have to let this person go versus leading reluctantly that says, well, you know, maybe I should try another approach. Maybe, and and for this person, the CEO, I think the hesitance to address the issue and to lead willingly was more about um their own comfort. Like they didn't recognize that they did not want to be in an uncomfortable position to have this uncomfortable conversation with this somewhat intimidating person.

John Broer 14:32

Right, right.

Sara Best 14:33

It comes down to like just human nature. Like, I gotta protect myself. Right. So leadership is not for the weak of heart. We know this. Um, Patrick Lincioni talks about the motive uh for leadership in his book, also called The Motive. He talks about responsibility-centered leadership. That is a lead willingly. Like, I know this is my job. I embrace that this is my job, I walk through discomfort, I take decisive action. Um, and by the way, if I if I have any other motive than that, it's probably not the right motive. If I don't have a whole body yes to this, it's not the right job. It's not fair to take on that responsibility at the cost of others' well-being.

Lead By Example Not Force

John Broer 15:17

Well, absolutely. And then you have the pressure of the potentially the pressure of the culture. For example, you know, there are some organizations. Man, I can't pass up this promotion. I can't pass up this opportunity. They're never going to give me a chance to do this again. Or uh, well, that's what we do in this organization. And we talk so much about the individual contributor pathway versus the manager pathway. And if you don't have those options, you are forcing people into the bosshole zone and making decisions that are not backed by a whole body yes. And I I love that, Sarah. I think that is so relevant. And so to our listeners out there, our existing managers, supervisors, leaders, or those that are maybe thinking about it, if you don't, if you're, if you don't have that, if your heart isn't all in it, you don't have that whole body yes, that is a really reliable indicator that you shouldn't move forward with it. And there's no shame. There's no shame in it, other than potentially the, the, the shame that is sort of manufactured within some organizational cultures when you don't take a promotion or move up. And I just, I think that's so powerful. So ask yourself the question: are you able to lead willingly or are you doing so reluctantly or under compulsion? I love that. So the third one, lead by example and not by force. Wow, this if there was one that was most tailored to bosshole behavior, it's this one. And we have so many, I'm thinking about some of our very earliest episodes back in 2020, where we heard stories of managers that would, you know, tell people to conduct themselves in this way, do this, um, guide them, or or bark out orders, uh, and yet they themselves didn't didn't show that same trait or lead by example. And I think this is where I think this is the most obvious, this is the the clearest evidence of boss hole behavior where, well, I want you to do it, but I'm not gonna do it. Does that make sense?

Sara Best 17:25

Oh, yeah. I mean, there's really not a whole lot you can say about that. I know I've witnessed it and seen it many times. I think about do as I say, not as I do.

John Broer 17:38

Right, right.

Sara Best 17:39

Um from the time we're really, really tiny and we're first learning about the world, that is so easy to spot. You know, little kids can see right through people who, you know, purport values and and want us to all show up a certain way or get along, and then they they act completely the opposite. Or they they just they are unaware. Here comes self-awareness again. They're unaware that they are that pot calling the kettle black, actually. Oh, so you know what, John? This reminds me of another important concept I learned in the conscious leadership process. And it's it's not a new idea, it's it's an idea that's out in other models and out in the world as well. Too. I think in AA they say, if you spot it, you got it. This idea of, you know, when we're frustrated by what someone else is doing, we complain. I can't believe they would think that way or say that. I can't believe they showed up that way. The idea is, hey, that's a mirror for you. Whatever is causing that frustration or concern in you is an indication that perhaps you have been unwilling to acknowledge and address that within yourself.

John Broer 18:47

Interesting. Okay, that makes sense. Yeah.

Sara Best 18:49

Spiritual axiom, more or less, that the disturbance that you see out there is the same one that's going on in here. So I think some people are just have never get been given the opportunity to uh embrace that or uh uh see that in themselves. Right. Like they don't even know that that's what's going on. That makes sense.

John Broer 19:11

It makes total sense. And you also make me think of what are the standards by which you are determining who should move into a leadership role? Well, let's let's be really clear here. I mean, you don't have to be in a in a management role to be a leader. I mean, leader is a position of influence, hopefully, ethical and favorable and moral influence with other people. But if you're looking for managers, what are the standards we're establishing? And all too often it's it's very superficial. And uh, I'm gonna throw myself into this category because, well, you know, Sarah, you're a persuader, I'm a captain. Those of us in that innovation and agility, we are, we tend to be very outspoken. We tend to be very proactive, comfortable with risk, and right, wrong, or indifferent, it, it sometimes projects us with these leadership characteristics, and they go, oh, that that person's a real go-getter. Let's put them in a in a leadership role, let's make them a manager or a supervisor. And there's absolutely no rationale behind that. There's no conclusive evidence to say that this person will be a great leader, other than the fact that they are just assertive, comfortable with risk, and talkative, and, you know, well, they've got great ideas and they can bring people together. Sometimes those examples are quieter. Sometimes those examples are less obvious. And this is why we've talked about it, reinventing the workplace and reinventing the manager. We need to look for different characteristics and wiring, if you will, because the workforce today uh really demands that. And the standards by which we would establish our managers and supervisors in the past, I think are outdated and antiquated, but they're still very much present. Yes. And we we elevate people into roles where they shouldn't be there because they have no other option. Or um that's the only way to advance in an organization, all the more reason to have a more robust individual contributor pathway.

Sara Best 21:09

So I I know you speak on this a lot, John, and it it's it's still elusive. I don't know that we have encountered many organizations that have amplified and sort of built out uh an individual contributor pathway. I do want to say, you know, the lead by example, not by force. Two things about that. You know, we've always heard the saying, it was Mahatma Gandhi who said, be the change you wish to see in the world. This brings us back to the true heartwork of leadership. You have to work on you. The answers, the solutions, the influence, it all comes from within. And for any leader that is not comfortable or willing to dig in there and and build the self awareness and build knowledge and acknowledge. Acknowledge with humility, their own humanity. Because by the way, last time I checked, we're all human. Uh, you know, there's so much to that. So it it puts the weight of the responsibility in our conversation back on the leader's shoulders. Like, hey, this is your work to know you and to develop you and to be in touch with your heart part. And then the force part, I think, John, you and I probably have specific, uh several, maybe countless specific examples of how people, when they're not in the right role, do really weird things and sometimes really bad things. They behave badly, they say unkind, untoward things. They they do bad things. And we can look with compassion upon those individuals because they're they're it's kind of a byproduct of poor job fit. And in many cases, even poor leader fit. They don't even have a leader who understands them. So it's complex. I mean, it sounds really simple, lead by example, not by force, but it requires this inner knowing and inner development. And it's the key to all of this. Would you agree?

John Broer 23:10

Absolutely. Absolutely. And and if you were to just distill it down back to our whole person model, you know, head, heart, and briefcase and baggage, but on the heart side, I think about if you do not have a heart or a desire or a passion or an interest in developing other people and helping them grow and literally nurturing their development, it's okay not to go into management. Yeah, I that's what it's gotta be. And you know, there are some management positions, I think this is interesting. In some organizations, they have a title of manager and they don't have any direct reports, so they're managing a process and not people. That's okay, that's fine. But if you are going to be managing and supervising people, other humans, I mean, really, really do a heart check. Yeah. And and if you don't have a desire to do that, don't do it. Um, or or give yourself time to grow into that and evolve into that. Because because that's what it takes. I mean, it really does.

Sara Best 24:18

Um, I would offer you could be supported by a coach, you could get involved in education, you could get trained in a particular approach. And it's probably maybe a comfort that you don't have to do this on your own.

John Broer 24:33

Yeah, that's true.

Off Ramps Coaching And Context

Sara Best 24:34

You know, uh the first, the first challenge is to admit, well, I I don't have to do this on my own. Like, I'm probably not gonna do a good job if I do it on my own. The second part is, yeah, you are not alone. Like there are resources and ways to help you show up as the best version of yourself because we all have something really powerful to offer. The whole thing about checking your heart, John, it's it's an important one. Is there any resentment in there? Is there any sort of uh leftover baggage that you've been carrying around either in your workplace or with people in your workplace or just even in your life? Is there grief or shame or fear that is unaddressed? Those things also weigh heavy and make it very difficult for people to show up uh in integrity.

John Broer 25:20

That is so true. That is so true. Well, first of all, uh thank you so much for your insights on this. I knew that you you would provide a whole different perspective and a great perspective on the idea of the heart of a leader. But I also want to speak to our managers and supervisors out there, our people that have current responsibility for other humans. I I just want to remind you that there, if you are feeling in your heart that you're not loving this work, there is no shame in that.

Sara Best 25:53

Right.

John Broer 25:54

I would encourage you to think about what's my off-ramp look like to go do something that gives me meaning and fulfillment. Um and I share this with you simply because you go back to, you know, I I love Sarah, how you've really established the our our leadership coaching methodology and perspective at Real Good Ventures is it's about context, not content. Meaning, let's we're not here to, you know, the two of us are not here to talk about this other person or individuals with with whom you're having difficulty. We're not gonna make it about them. It's all about the individual. It's it's all about, well, what is what is your role in this? How do we build this self-awareness to understand where you drift into the bosshole zone, perhaps?

Sara Best 26:39

Yeah.

John Broer 26:39

But I was in a conversation with a an uh a gentleman recently who I are we're gonna be working more together, but I got the distinct impression that his passion and his desire to manage and develop and work with people has just sort of waned. And I think he feels really bad about that. And I said, there's there's no shame in that. We go through seasons in life, and maybe this season means getting back to what you really love to do. And that's okay, because life is way too short not to do that. So I just wanted to give that bit of encouragement to our managers and supervisors out there that may think, gosh, I'm not in the right role. This, this, I, for whatever reason, I'm just this isn't for me. Okay. Yeah, find something else.

Sara Best 27:23

Hallelujah. Like, how great to know that. And would it be so great if we could have like an emancipation day where people who are unhappy in their jobs could go, okay, me, I want something different. Two things I want to just conclude here with, John. You're right. It is, it is not about the content. And maybe for each one of us, just to gently remind ourselves that it's so easy to focus on what is or isn't happening, what who's saying what? Like we get all into the stuff and we relay the details and we retell the story. It's what we do.

John Broer 27:52

Yeah.

Sara Best 27:53

It's never about that. The resolution to our issues and our frustrations is never about the content. It's always about our context, how we are coming to the content.

John Broer 28:03

Yep.

Sara Best 28:04

Am I above the line or below the line? Am I open, curious, and committed to learning, or am I defensive, closed off, and committed to being right? And as far as I know, we spend much more of our time down there in the below the line, committed to being right. At least I do, anyways. So that's one thing. And the other thing is when we had our retreat this year, we met as a team, we looked at our why do we exist? No, we use Patrick Lencioni's six critical questions, and we created our new thematic goal for the year. But we exist to honor God, provide heartfelt service, develop human leadership, and save lives. And that's why we talk about this stuff. It is not lost on us, is it, John, that we're talking about these moments and we only get these moments, and we want each and every one of our listeners to have the freedom and the peace and the full self-expression in these moments. And you can't have that when you're settling for, when you're doing the right thing because you think it's your job to do the right thing and take this job. So that's my closing thought is uh we're all about saving lives. Hopefully, today's message was a helpful one.

John Broer 29:16

Perfect, Sarah. Thank you. Loved having you here, everybody, and keep listening to the Bosshole Chronicles.

Announcer 29:26

Thanks very much for checking out this episode of the Bosshole Chronicles. It was so good to have you here. And if you have your own bosshole story that you want to share with the Bosshole Transformation Nation, just reach out.

John Broer 29:38

You can email us at mystory at the bossholechronicles.com. Again, my story at the bossholechronicles.com. We'll see you next time.